New Deny NAI Video

HVYMETALDRVR

HVYMETALDRVR

Well-Known Member
j4seymor said:
Wait, so this airline wants to cut their labor costs by outsourcing their pilots to another group of equally qualified pilots who will do it for less money? Preposterous.
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Not just pilot pay, but safety and regulatory requirements as well.
 
P

Phil Schuyler

Well-Known Member
This video reminded me of one of ALPA's fundamental problems; and that is their lack of ability or willingness to respond to issues using market forces, and instead try to overcome market forces.

All I know about the NAI situation is what the video presents. But it seems to me that if NAI can take advantage of such and such a loophole, then so can U.S. airlines. Rather than trying to fight the rule, take advantage of it, and out-compete NAI.

Give you a better example. Mainline carriers are constantly shifting flying from this regional to that regional to the other regional in order to gain a cost advantage. ALPA facilitates this by negotiating multi-step, graduated pay scales. These create automatic cost advantages for new entrant carriers and create division within a pilot group. A graduated pay scale is nothing more than a B-scale for all people not at top of the chart. Eliminate that. Negotiate a single rate for equipment and seat, regardless of longevity. This gets rid of the marginal cost advantage for new entrants, and also promotes unity within the pilot group.

These are just my ideas, and I'm sure there are other (i.e. better) ideas than mine. But the point is, stop trying to fight market forces, and use them to your advantage.
 
Seggy

Seggy

Well-Known Member
Phil Schuyler said:
This video reminded me of one of ALPA's fundamental problems; and that is their lack of ability or willingness to respond to issues using market forces, and instead try to overcome market forces.

All I know about the NAI situation is what the video presents. But it seems to me that if NAI can take advantage of such and such a loophole, then so can U.S. airlines. Rather than trying to fight the rule, take advantage of it, and out-compete NAI.

Give you a better example. Mainline carriers are constantly shifting flying from this regional to that regional to the other regional in order to gain a cost advantage. ALPA facilitates this by negotiating multi-step, graduated pay scales. These create automatic cost advantages for new entrant carriers and create division within a pilot group. A graduated pay scale is nothing more than a B-scale for all people not at top of the chart. Eliminate that. Negotiate a single rate for equipment and seat, regardless of longevity. This gets rid of the marginal cost advantage for new entrants, and also promotes unity within the pilot group.

These are just my ideas, and I'm sure there are other (i.e. better) ideas than mine. But the point is, stop trying to fight market forces, and use them to your advantage.
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There is so much wrong in this, I don't know where to first start my response.
 
Seggy

Seggy

Well-Known Member
Phil Schuyler said:
This video reminded me of one of ALPA's fundamental problems; and that is their lack of ability or willingness to respond to issues using market forces, and instead try to overcome market forces.
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First, are you an ALPA member? Secondly, if so, when was the last time you attended a LEC Meeting? Thirdly, what about an ALPA Call to Action?

All I know about the NAI situation is what the video presents. But it seems to me that if NAI can take advantage of such and such a loophole, then so can U.S. airlines. Rather than trying to fight the rule, take advantage of it, and out-compete NAI.
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The U.S. airlines can't take advantage of the loopholes a foreign company such as NAI. Secondly, even if they could, OUR jobs at U.S. Airlines pilots would be toast as the U.S. Airlines would open up crew domiciles in Thailand and Vladivostok with a crew agency out of China.

Give you a better example. Mainline carriers are constantly shifting flying from this regional to that regional to the other regional in order to gain a cost advantage. ALPA facilitates this by negotiating multi-step, graduated pay scales. These create automatic cost advantages for new entrant carriers and create division within a pilot group. A graduated pay scale is nothing more than a B-scale for all people not at top of the chart. Eliminate that. Negotiate a single rate for equipment and seat, regardless of longevity. This gets rid of the marginal cost advantage for new entrants, and also promotes unity within the pilot group.
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Don't you think this has been studies before? I know I pay a lot of dues to ALPA and I am sure they have thought of this!

These are just my ideas, and I'm sure there are other (i.e. better) ideas than mine. But the point is, stop trying to fight market forces, and use them to your advantage.
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The way ALPA is handling this fight has been excellent so far. Usually in this type of scheme it is rubber stamped. The fact that it has NOT been approved yet is a sign that the way ALPA has approached this is working VERY VERY VERY well.
 
ScorpioStinger

ScorpioStinger

Well-Known Member
Funny ALPA is worried about low wages and/or competition from non-union Thai Pilots. Major's are using ALPA to fight this NAI battle.

P.s. Unless i'm retarded, Major Airlines are playing regional pilots against regional pilots to drive down cost... So how is this any different? NAI is going for cheap labor like AAG, driving down labor costs.

Thanks.
 
ScorpioStinger

ScorpioStinger

Well-Known Member
Just saying, ALPA should focus more energy to suppport the labor/wage issues regional pilots were/are fighting (They are future members after all).

#RAH-Envoy-ExpressJet.

Majors don't want NAI competition around? Let them fight that battle, let them spend money advertising & paying lobbists to woo congress.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Most Hated Member
ScorpioStinger said:
Just saying, ALPA should focus more energy to suppport the labor/wage issues regional pilots were/are fighting (They are future members after all).

#RAH-Envoy-ExpressJet.
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First, the NAI issue affects everyone. Doesn't matter whether you're regional, major, cargo, or CFI. If this is successful, it could be the death knell of US based aviation.

Second, ALPA can't change economic realities of the regional business model.

#IHateHashtags
 
Ajax

Ajax

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
ScorpioStinger said:
Just saying, ALPA should focus more energy to suppport the labor/wage issues regional pilots were/are fighting (They are future members after all).

#RAH-Envoy-ExpressJet.

Majors don't want NAI competition around? Let them fight that battle, let them spend money advertising & paying lobbists to woo congress.
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Because airlines love recycling pilots. ALPA knows this, they don't care. Somewhere a pay disparity turned into flawed business model turned into a everyone under cut the other take this pay cut and it will be awesome for you later....unless of course someone else wants to do it for less, then you have to undercut them or lose your job. And when you lose your job because you were already in the poor house is your fauls WELP lol should've taken that pay cut.

God, if only there was a group of pilots focused on minimizing such strong arm tactics and looking out for its members...
 
Ajax

Ajax

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You can't do anything if you never try.

Especially if you're too busy whipsawing pilot groups and continueing the unfortunate tradition.
 
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