New Airplane for ATN

Goonie said:
You CAN make some pretty good money actually. I have owned lease back airplanes before and made some money. I also lost money on a PA-28R. I owned a 172M that made me probably about 20K clean over the course of a year.

If you get a good later model 172S, you can clean up at the right flight school. I wouldn't do it with a 70's model again because parts are becoming more expensive and harder to come by. Also, the airframes are very high time. I sold mine for what I paid for it because I sold in the right market. 172S models stay on the market for 24 hours usually so you have to really be ready to buy one.





That is what insurance is for. Also, you should LLC that airplane. Never have your personal finances attached to it. The can sue Goonie LLC all they want, but nothing is there to take.
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LLC doesn't provide protection against tort claims - and if the suit is on negligence grounds, my understanding is that you can't shield yourself with an LLC.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I wasn't planning on spending more than $150k. The possibilities discussed about chartering it may change that, though.
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If you don't mind experimentals you can get a lot more for your money. A Velocity XLRG with the 200hp delta hawk diesel engine would be up at the top of my list for a cross country machine. That or a Lancair IV.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I wasn't planning on spending more than $150k. The possibilities discussed about chartering it may change that, though.
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You DO NOT want a Barron that only costs 150K. If it's that cheap, it's only because it needs a LOT of work to bring it up to your standards.

Also stay away from anything with a turbine unless you just won the lottery.

Trust me.
 
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ATN_Pilot said:
I definitely plan to buy a plane. Just a matter of which one and how I structure it. This lease back and charter stuff is something I hadn't considered. Have to look into it more.
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If you're looking for a lease back deal you should check out Falcon Aviation Academy. They're based out of FFC and CCO. They use Barons for time building. They never let students rent or fly the plane without an experienced flight instructor onboard. They'll fly the wheels off the plane though. When I was working there we would put 12-15 hrs on our barons daily.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I wasn't planning on spending more than $150k. The possibilities discussed about chartering it may change that, though.
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I know a management company that will try to convince you that a G-IV is a viable option when the reality is a CJ-3 may be beyond your means. Research all of your options and look at them with a critical view before you decide to jump into anything that's turbine powered. I've seen more than one person lose their small fortune trying 135. Airline pilot might seem impressive to some people and might be seen as an opportunity by others, if you decide to go down that route due diligence will become paramount.
 
Murdoughnut said:
LLC doesn't provide protection against tort claims - and if the suit is on negligence grounds, my understanding is that you can't shield yourself with an LLC.
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I have not been personally sued and none of my leaseback endeavors have been in a accident. I have been very close to people that have gone through this though. A friend of mine had a leaseback that that was involved in a fatal and that ended up in lawsuits for negligence, but he never had to really lift a finger. The insurance company has lawyers that deal with it and his personal assets were never at risk. He owns many leasebacks and never had issues with being personally sued. Of course, his premiums went through the roof so he paid in the long run.
 
USMCmech said:
You DO NOT want a Barron that only costs 150K. If it's that cheap, it's only because it needs a LOT of work to bring it up to your standards.

Trust me.
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I do not know much about Barons but I know someone who owned one and he couldn't sell it fast enough. Ended up selling it and buying a A36. Higher hull price for the A36 but much better and half the operating cost.
 
Clay Lacy said his favorite airplane in his fleet is his Baron, at least that was what he told me 10 years ago.
 
Murdoughnut said:
LLC doesn't provide protection against tort claims - and if the suit is on negligence grounds, my understanding is that you can't shield yourself with an LLC.
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My small army of lawyers begs to differ. They say that people may still try to come after you personally, but their chance of success is nil.

knot4u said:
Clay Lacy said his favorite airplane in his fleet is his Baron, at least that was what he told me 10 years ago.
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Quoting a SCAB probably isn't the best way to sell me something. ;)
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Dude, I hadn't thought about making them pay me. Good call! :)

I'm leaning heavily towards a Baron, although Tracy is trying to talk me into a Cirrus. I probably won't be buying anything until later this year, though.
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Bonanzas are fast and efficient.
 
I'd go with the Baron,its a great airplane. A well maintained example shouldn't run a fortune at annual and if the expected number of flight hours is around 100 a year it will give many years of faithful service. One thing I will say about the Continental engines - don't let them sit for too long, they don't like it.

As far as maintenance goes, there are a couple of good shops in the ATL area - Bob Ripley at Cedar Ridge is an authority on Barons and Bonanzas. Larry Owen at RMG knows his stuff too.

Happy hunting!

Bp244
 
If you're looking at a Baron, you could consider a PA31 as well. Might not be quite as fast, but you'll be able to take more people with you that way. Not sure what kind of PA31 you'll get for around $150K though
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Dude, I hadn't thought about making them pay me. Good call! :)

I'm leaning heavily towards a Baron, although Tracy is trying to talk me into a Cirrus. I probably won't be buying anything until later this year, though.
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Get a Baron, dude. They're great airplanes. You don't really want to drive around in a plastic airplane, do you?
 
ATN_Pilot said:
My small army of lawyers begs to differ. They say that people may still try to come after you personally, but their chance of success is nil.



Quoting a SCAB probably isn't the best way to sell me something. ;)
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I used his name to get a reaction, and it worked. CLA is far from perfect but probably better than most. I haven't worked there for a long time and when I did it was as a mechanic, and I got a lot of good experience regarding 135 operations. If you think you want to capitilize on your previous experience becoming a consultant is lucrative and you don't have to carry much liability as far as finances are concerned.
 
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