NetJets - April 2025 Thread

[DeltaJulietTango]

@DeltaJulietTango This is the definition of flight following! You can dig through the 8900 to also find the FAA's ADI Guidance for what Flight following is, and how it is a requirement for both flight dispatchers and flight followers (121 Supp). Aside from that reference, the only difference between dispatchers and flight followers is who ultimately has operational control (which at most carriers, even a supplemental release is treated the same as a DOM/FLAG with the joint operational control occurring between the dispatcher and PIC and outlined in a GOM/FOM). The other main difference is you have a flight release (SUPP) versus a Dispatch Release (DOM/FLAG). Anything else does not fall under 121 guidance. As far as I know, NetJets is not a 121 carrier - they are 91 - therefore you really are just a flight planner. Your certificate would not (and should not) be on the line in the event of an incident/accident. Want further clarification? Reach out to FAA Legal and ask for an interpretation.

The CH4 reference just talks about a centralized dispatch/flight following facility. No other mention of operational control duties. You just need a certificate to work there and must furnish it if requested by the administrator.

As far as you statement of being at the bottom of the list for 15 years....that is far from the truth. I've been at my carrier for almost 14. I am far from the bottom of the list - within the top 50% and we have little to no turnover except for retirements. Major's offer a slew of benefits and better pay scales than most 91 operators since they have rock solid contracts that are only getting better every few years since they play catch-up with one another. The majority would indicate a major is the apex of one's career because they are so many other opportunities aside from line dispatching - ATC Coordinator, Sector Manager, Chiefs, Leadership. You cannot really get that at a P91. The folks I have known that come from NetJets, agree, they are not really dispatching since there is little to no flight following being done, which is 50% of the job. And that number came from an ADI...so I will take the FAA's word and figures over yours.

NetJets has 91 MSpecs and 135 OpSpecs...but you know many former NetJets dispatchers...so you'd know that, right?

NJUSA generally operates under the more restrictive 135 OpSpecs...and NetJets dispatchers exercise operational control.

The rest of your post is subjective...and your opinion mixed in with "i heard" and a reference to the 8900.

49 USC 44748 actually uses the word "air carrier"...not "121 air carrier"...and while I know that seems like it's splitting hairs...it's an important distinction...and when it is implemented in 14 CFR, it will require that dispatchers and flight followers with dispatch certificates be used at all air carriers...since that's the law.

 

[DeltaJulietTango]

NetJets has 91 MSpecs and 135 OpSpecs...but you know many former NetJets dispatchers...so you'd know that, right?

NJUSA generally operates under the more restrictive 135 OpSpecs...and NetJets dispatchers exercise operational control.

The rest of your post is subjective...and your opinion mixed in with "i heard" and a reference to the 8900.

49 USC 44748 actually uses the word "air carrier"...not "121 air carrier"...and while I know that seems like it's splitting hairs...it's an important distinction...and when it is implemented in 14 CFR, it will require that dispatchers and flight followers with dispatch certificates be used at all air carriers...since that's the law.

Incidentally...the point I'm making is this:

even though a certificated dispatcher isn't working at a 121 Domestic/Flag air carrier...they are still doing "real dispatching" or "real flight following" dependent upon the title.

 

[OttoPilot13]

Consider for a moment: not everyone wants to work at the bottom of a seniority list at a legacy carrier for 15 years. While you might consider this to be the apex of a career as a dispatcher, not everyone else does.

The conversation seems to have gone to: is dispatching at NetJets "real dispatching"...and I would hold that it is.

If you are only doing half of the job of a qualified and current dispatcher / flight follower, (building releases) than you are not getting quality work experience that will help if and when the time comes you want to move onto future endeavors. Whether that be a legacy carrier or otherwise.

 

[Cheryl_Tunt]

They do not entirely share all aspects of a 121 operation. The main function of dispatch there is preparing valid releases. Flight following functions are secondary, and shared with scheduling and owner services. Crews will normally talk with dispatch mid-flight for issues before calling the other two departments—especially on technical aspects. To say dispatch doesn’t flight follow is disingenuous. The difficulty with flight following comes from the number of flights assigned to prepare each hour, which range from 10-15--sometimes more during peak hours from late morning to afternoon--and average about 5 the rest of the time. Its obvious which shifts are more likely to effectively flight follow. But they all do. Scheduling won’t be keeping track if alternates drop below mins. CTF should in theory plan the easy flights so dispatchers have more time to handle the complicated ones. The problems with CTF are well elaborated here and elsewhere. However, the major worry about the dispatch department are with the recent hiring of new managers. 15-20 year dispatchers have been overlooked or are rejecting the role. Nearly all the managers until recently were there since the mid 90s, and those joining them just speaks volumes.

It is really hard to seriously take a new manager whose main experience was as a prep cook and failed electrician with less than 6 years in aviation, and less in dispatch, with no aeronautical education to speak of. Is it then surprising he behaves like Gordan Ramsay on a power trip, treating long tenured dispatchers like disposable line cooks? He views the dispatch department with the same seriousness of a burger flipping operation. This is a cancer that can fester if its tolerated. If this is an environment you're willing to tolerate until they get their senses back, then the great health benefits, retirement, and stability are definitely worth it. The upgrade to the new planning software could change things, so there’s much to look forward to. Overall, good, solid and reputable company adapting to rapid growth, so not everything will be perfect.

 

[autosave36]

Consider for a moment: not everyone wants to work at the bottom of a seniority list at a legacy carrier for 15 years. While you might consider this to be the apex of a career as a dispatcher, not everyone else does.

The conversation seems to have gone to: is dispatching at NetJets "real dispatching"...and I would hold that it is.

Two things on that; if you think that's what happens at a major, you would be.... dead wrong. I've been at one for 3 years and already hold my desired start time (and have for almost 18 months now). And it won't take much longer to get the desired lines with holidays. You also make more money with better benefits and better work rules. So yes, it's the apex of a career as a dispatcher.
the second thing is, no netjets is not real dispatching if you do not flight follow. Your responsibility as a dispatcher as outlined by 121.533 (c) (domestic) and 121.535 (c) (flag) is:

(c) The aircraft dispatcher is responsible for—

(1) Monitoring the progress of each flight;

(2) Issuing necessary instructions and information for the safety of the flight; and

(3) Cancelling or redispatching a flight if, in his opinion or the opinion of the pilot in command, the flight cannot operate or continue to operate safely as planned or released.

1 and 2 are impossible without flight following. Therefore Flight following is absolutely part of your responsibilities as a dispatcher. If you aren't doing that, you're not dispatching. You're releasing flights.

Edit: That's not to say netjets isn't a great job opportunity.

 

[flyingpotato]

it's the apex of a career as a dispatcher.

121 dispatch is the most open and common operational control role in all of aerospace and is definitely not prestigious or high paying enough to flex one's ego against a non-121 job (nothing more cringeworthy than support roles flexing their egos).

There are more rewarding and complex operational control roles outside airlines (space, certain corporate, test, government etc) and don't exist on the verge of unprofitability and bankruptcy without some form of Sate support or nationalisation. The fact that 121 dispatch is the most common and enumerated in federal law, seems to have left the incorrect impression they're the most important: they're only essential in a 121 context. Full stop. There are numerous other entities that don't need to apply 121 restrictions because it's not in their business model or purpose to do so. So why talk down on anything not 121 that shares the same name and concept as dispatch? 121 "dispatch" does not hold exclusive rights on the term or concept with or without enumratation from legal codes.

Has anyone also answered why the company requires licensed dispatchers if they don't have to? Most businesses search for reasons to avoid regulatory constraints, and not apply unnecessary ones to themselves.

Edit: found the job description.

 

[Htown19]

121 dispatch is the most open and common operational control role in all of aerospace and is definitely not prestigious or high paying enough to flex one's ego against a non-121 job (nothing more cringeworthy than support roles flexing their egos).

There are more rewarding and complex operational control roles outside airlines (space, certain corporate, test, government etc) and don't exist on the verge of unprofitability and bankruptcy without some form of Sate support or nationalisation. The fact that 121 dispatch is the most common and enumerated in federal law, seems to have left the incorrect impression they're the most important: they're only essential in a 121 context. Full stop. There are numerous other entities that don't need to apply 121 restrictions because it's not in their business model or purpose to do so. So why talk down on anything not 121 that shares the same name and concept as dispatch? 121 "dispatch" does not hold exclusive rights on the term or concept with or without enumratation from legal codes.

Has anyone also answered why the company requires licensed dispatchers if they don't have to? Most businesses search for reasons to avoid regulatory constraints, and not apply unnecessary ones to themselves.

Edit: found the job description.

View attachment 83497

“Flight Following as workload allows”.

Yeah I can already imagine that conversation.

“Hey captain! Yeah I know you’re at your bingo fuel and your alternate is closed due to a hole that opened up in the middle of the runway but sorry my workload was too high to flight follow- had to crank out those releases for the guys sitting safely on the ground!”

 

[DeltaJulietTango]

“Flight Following as workload allows”.

Yeah I can already imagine that conversation.

“Hey captain! Yeah I know you’re at your bingo fuel and your alternate is closed due to a hole that opened up in the middle of the runway but sorry my workload was too high to flight follow- had to crank out those releases for the guys sitting safely on the ground!”

The bold assumption that a professional, certificated dispatcher who underwent a minimum of 12 full weeks of training at NetJets before they were even allowed to sign their own name to a release would reply this way in that context is patently absurd and insulting to your fellow certificate holders.

Your profile says you work at CommuteAir...honestly...sit down.

 

[Htown19]

The bold assumption that a professional, certificated dispatcher who underwent a minimum of 12 full weeks of training at NetJets before they were even allowed to sign their own name to a release would reply this way in that context is patently absurd and insulting to your fellow certificate holders.

Your profile says you work at CommuteAir...honestly...sit down.

1. WorkED.
2. Apparently no amount of training can teach you to understand sarcasm

 

[DeltaJulietTango]

1. WorkED.
2. Apparently no amount of training can teach you to understand sarcasm

1. Good for you.
2. Your previous posts point to the idea that "oh, you don't get I was being sarcastic?" is likely not the case. But on the off chance that you were not following up in the same vein as your other posts here, then I stand corrected.

 

[CrashesDrones]

I feel bad for any newly licensed person coming in this thread and thinking all their coworkers will be like this.

If you just got your license, aren't sure what your 10 year plan is, and need a job, sure go there. But as I'm sure has been made clear, if your goal is to get to a legacy it may not be as advantageous experience as a regional. If you want to spend your career there, good for you.


But with the current market, you probably just want a job so who cares?

 

[presstabquick]

I feel bad for any newly licensed person coming in this thread and thinking all their coworkers will be like this.

If you just got your license, aren't sure what your 10 year plan is, and need a job, sure go there. But as I'm sure has been made clear, if your goal is to get to a legacy it may not be as advantageous experience as a regional. If you want to spend your career there, good for you.


But with the current market, you probably just want a job so who cares?

This.

I personally feel people should not be afraid of lateral moves. People do it all the time for one reason or another. A job is a job in this market like you said.

Plans change all the time too, either by force or choice.

 

[pljenkins]

Wow. Well, this thread got ugly. Not sure who pissed in your Cheerios DJT, but let's take it easy on the kids, hey?

From the Administrator's standpoint, Part 91's operational control lies wholly on the pilot in command (or, in the case of a fractional like Netjets, the owner per FAR 91.1009), Part 135's operational control lies jointly with the PIC and whomever is designated by the Operator (who sometimes delegates that responsibility to a certificated dispatcher, FAR 135.77), and Part 121's operational control lies jointly with the PIC and a certified dispatcher (FAR 121.533, 121.535, 121.537). These are not gray areas from the Government's standpoint. At the end of the day, it comes down to who's going to the NTSB hearing with their certificate on the line when things go sideways.

To be clear, Part 121 is the ONLY operation which SPECIFICALLY requires a certificated, current, and qualified aircraft dispatcher to operate flights. Though many 135 operators use "dispatchers" in their operations, they need not be certified by the Administration as an aircraft dispatcher. It seems good practice for an operator to utilize certificated airman as dispatchers, but they are under no obligation to do so. Also, do not confuse "operating under Part 91/135" as a Part 91/135 operator. Many companies that hold a Part 121 certificate will operate flights under Part 91/135 rules. Though specifically a dispatcher is not REQUIERED for those operations, you would be hard pressed to find a FSDO that would be okay with that. Even though some companies might "hedge" by specifying on the release that it is not a Part 121 operation, you'd better believe that if the operation ends in a smoking hole in the ground the dispatcher who's name shows up anywhere on there is gonna be Exhibit A on the investigation. (Protip: The practice of deleting your name from the release doesn't absolve you of getting a call from Los Federales. You cannot run. You cannot hide. Resistance is futile.)

The bottom line is this: Aviation is a small, tight knit community. If you spend any time in this business you can bet that someone, somewhere, knows who you are and your reputation. If you're young and looking to break in to dispatching, ANY gig that is dispatch or dispatch adjacent is a good move. Even if NetJets isn't "dispatching" in the traditional sense, it's resume fodder and "time in the seat" when it comes to moving on up. Put in the work, have a good attitude and work ethic, and be flexible enough to jump on opportunities to move closer to your goal.

 

[flyingpotato]

If you're young and looking to break in to dispatching, ANY gig that is dispatch or dispatch adjacent is a good move.... it's resume fodder and "time in the seat" when it comes to moving on up.

You were right in everything else you said. Except for this. It's horrible, terrible advice. Why spend 2-3 years learning a niche side of aviation, just to dump all that knowledge and start at the very bottom at another side of the business? Dispatch/ops cotrol in the private side is not as straightjacketed as the airlines. The roles are many and vary across companies and agencies. Even then, most companies, outside South Florida LLCs looking for multi-tasking, underpaid seat warmers, would reveal this intent during training or on the job, and lead to the likelihood of a short, bitter stint at a company. For small departments that may even have candidates meet the family, or top executives to check personality fit, don't want this type of person. They often demand total loyalty from their staff. Sure, in this market, a job is a job. But it may come across as surprising, but the vast majority on the private side stay in the private side. And a surprisingly good number in the private side are retired 121 or former, legacies included! Keep in mind there are less than a 200 dispatchers in the US working for a corporation, fractional/charter that are running a serious dispatch/operational control system. 70 of them work at just one company. The importance of starting off on the right foot cannot be understated.

 

[pljenkins]

You were right in everything else you said. Except for this. It's horrible, terrible advice. Why spend 2-3 years learning a niche side of aviation, just to dump all that knowledge and start at the very bottom at another side of the business?

As opposed to working at Winchell's? Look, if you are starting off in your mid 30's like I did, yeah, this is terrible advice. If you're 23 and looking for a break-in and/or a means financially to get to a license, why the eff not? It's not exactly a black mark on your resume, shows tenacity, and at least gives you something to talk about at the interview for your first legit 121 job. Of course it's not dispatching, but neither is pumping gas at the FBO. Remember the three pillars of success in getting work in dispatch? Networking is not trivial, and those retired 121 guys you run into still have street cred with their former co-workers. Aviation et. al. is a small community. You'd be surprised who you run into, who that guy knows, and how that might find its way into the right ear.

 

[flyingpotato]

As opposed to working at Winchell's? Look, if you are starting off in your mid 30's like I did, yeah, this is terrible advice. If you're 23 and looking for a break-in and/or a means financially to get to a license, why the eff not?

Hilarious. I don't think the seriousness which which some of these private entities operate is obvious to most given that statement. A 23 yr old is not getting a F10 job straight out of college and as a means of getting a license unless they're a nepo baby with dispatch being a short stop for further roles within the company, or have some serious connects or internships. It also helps when your daddy is the CEO, or a once in a lifetime pandemic triggers an avalanche of growth hiring not seen in decades (one reason EJA's scale is being compared to airlines). With only a handful of companies with some type of open meritocratic approach to hiring, the scale is not big enough to assume your advice works consistently.