Need some advice...

EatSleepFly

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
OK, here's the scoop.

So the other day, my company tells me in so many words to not expect much flying anymore. The chief pilot (a senior 767 captain who lives 3.5 hrs. away and makes more in 4 days than I make in a month) has decided he wants to fly 1 in 3 trips now, instead of twice a month. The newly hired Lear pilots will also be flying the King Air. Since they are all salary and I am paid per day, it was made pretty clear to me that I would be getting displaced by them. I could keep a foot in the door, and keep current in the airplane, but not fly enough to eat. Seems they no longer had a use for me. I even started making arrangements to work my way back into instructing on a more full time basis.

Until today. The phone rings this morning and they need me to do a trip with the chief pilot on Saturday. At first I told them yeah, no problem, but then I remembered that I have family who rearranged their schedules to come down and visit on Saturday. So I called back and said I'd rather sit this one out. Unfortunately, there is no one else that can take it. Even if they wanted to, they can't fly this one single pilot. So now what do I do?

After the low pay, crappy hours, late paychecks, and being treated unprofessionally, I really have no interest in taking this trip (which will be an 0330 to 1600 duty day), and told my boss that. He said he completely understands, but I need to speak to the president of the company tomorrow and tell him that. It really isn't worth the crap money that they pay me to tell my family that they have to stay home and not come down.

I guess what I'm asking is, what would you do? I think I have my mind made up. I'd like to turn it down which would force them to broker it out to someone else. I don't feel that I owe them anything, and no matter what, I'll still be able to get a good word and recommendation letters from my boss (the D.O.). He is on my side.

Any advice would be appreciated. I'm furious that they have the balls to basically lay me off and then get their panties in a bunch when I don't up and haul ass to the airport when they get short of people.

Thanks in advance.
 
I wouldn't worry about it man, they are ready to let you go and they call you up and expect you to fall all over yourself to help them out, screw em bro. Family is more important anyways!

Stay sane
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,
Ryan
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'm furious that they have the balls to basically lay me off and then get their panties in a bunch when I don't up and haul ass to the airport when they get short of people.

[/ QUOTE ]Welcome to the world of corporate America during economic conditions where the employer holds the cards.

Do what you think is right for you. Doing what =they= want may or may not give you a benefit in the future.
 
your company sounds like a couple chicks i used to date.....they didnt want you around, but when they did want you there they expected you to come running with roses....

bros befores hos my man
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Well, you could go in and tell them that you feel like youre being used and that they don't want you around anymore. Tell them that you want to continue working for them but that you need a more stable schedule with better pay, and if that doesn't work out for them, that you'll have no option but to turn down the trip.

Then you'll find out how much they really like you. If they like you, they'll find a way, and if they don't they'll let you walk.
 
Well at this stage in your career there is something to be said for keeping good employer relations and not burning bridges.

If it's a safety issue, sometimes you have to just quit and let the chips fall where they may. On a scheduling issue I'd think hard before flipping them off.
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Is a reference from a crap job worth it?

I don't know. I kind of like Jay's idea, though. Let them make the decision for you.

Basically say that you have had arrangements for this day for some time and in light of their recent decisions (basically telling you to sod off) you feel that if you do the trip you should get a shot at better pay and a better schedule (assuming you want that, of course). If they don't want to play (which more than likely they won't) you get out of the trip; if they do want to play then you get a better flying gig. In either case they are making the decision, not you.

There's no law that says you can't play this situation to your advantage - remember they're the ones that a)have been screwing you and b) are now in a position of need.

The "carrot on the stick" that is "references" isn't always worth the crap that goes along with it.

But what do I know.
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I agree.. it's never good to burn bridges, but it sounds like things would be easier if you go in there head held high and tell them what the deal is, just be honest... at least tell them you want something out of the deal like more stability and that type of thing - play your cards, but make sure they don't see you bluff and see what the hand is dealt...then they may make the decision for you which will make it easier for you to say whether your going to stay or go...if they're going to lay you off anyways, you have nothing to lose!

it sounds like they were going to put you on the "we'll call you if we need you" side anyways which would be good for relations, but not really good for the pocketbook or your sanity!

Family is important, but not burning bridges is also important because you never know if something may come thru on your end of the deal. Dedication always looks good in the eye of the employer and every now and then, we have to sacrifice (even more) to get ahead (well, duh.. you already know that!)...

it's your choice, you do what's right for you...but try not to play it based on emotion, play it based on business sense since it's a career/money/job vs family thing.
 
Check it out bro; take the trip, then the night before tell them that some psycho came by and broke your legs and that you can't make the flight. The only problem is that they'll probably want to see some broken knee's, so I'll drive down to Ohio and break your legs with a crowbar for you dude, just 'cause I like you. That way, you get out of the trip, have a valid excuse AND your girlfriend can wait on you hand and foot for the next few weeks because guess what, YOU CAN'T WALK! I'm hilarious I know
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Seriously dude, I wouldn't take it. If you can still get a good recomendation from them, then they can piss off in the same way they told you that you could do the same. It's not worth it.
 
Here is my two cents, take the trip and don't voice your discontent with the company. The reason I say this is because you say your boss will give you a good reference no matter what. When I hear things like this, I look for the guarantee that is right on the box, suprise, there is no guarantee.

If you just suck it up and don't act like a disgruntled employee, you just might get a good reference if and when they let you go. You can explain all of this to your next employer who will be delighted that you stuck in there even though the writing was on the wall.

I have lived and learned that just up and leaving a company when you suddenly are not happy is not going to look good to the next employer. Employers don't want you to scream when they twist and pull to get blood from you. Trust me on this, hang in there and remember me when you become the Chief Pilot
 
[ QUOTE ]
Is a reference from a crap job worth it?

I don't know. I kind of like Jay's idea, though. Let them make the decision for you.

Basically say that you have had arrangements for this day for some time and in light of their recent decisions (basically telling you to sod off) you feel that if you do the trip you should get a shot at better pay and a better schedule (assuming you want that, of course). If they don't want to play (which more than likely they won't) you get out of the trip; if they do want to play then you get a better flying gig. In either case they are making the decision, not you.

There's no law that says you can't play this situation to your advantage - remember they're the ones that a)have been screwing you and b) are now in a position of need.

The "carrot on the stick" that is "references" isn't always worth the crap that goes along with it.

But what do I know.
rolleyes.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Well I guess I see your point. It may be different than when I was in my time-building years. Could be there is a big enough shortage of pilots that if someone won't play the game your way you can tell them to stuff it. If so great.

As far as the "family plans" thing my advice to new entry level pilots is to get over it. I've had family travel in many times and left them at home while I went to work. By the same token it was many years into my career before I saw holidays off with the wife and kids. I never cried about it nor did my family. If you want all those days off, guaranteed, get a 9-5 job. Flying is 24/7/365, except on leap year.

But that's just my point of view. I never complained about getting called out to fly. But I have quit some jobs and burned some bridges over other issues. So if this is worth it to our friend, then flip 'em off and enjoy it.

bandit.gif
 
I'm not saying walk in, drop drawers, and proceed to spell out your name on the president's desk.
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I just think if a company that has told me to "get lost" turns around and is begging me to fly a trip I'd take advantage of the situation (in the most politicaly correct manner possible) to try and get as much "good stuff" for me as possible. Maybe that sounds selfish, cold, whatever but the company would (and has, in this case) do it to "me" in a heartbeat. If I'm already almost out the door may as well go out with a fight.

If the company were nicer (i.e. could pay me on time, paid me better, etc.) I'd probably just fly the trip.

I guess my point is if you're already on the way out, and the company hasn't been that great to begin with I, personally, wouldn't go out of my way to do 'em any favors. Again, hadthey just let me go it might even be different but when a company can't even take the time to make sure the paychecks get out in a timely manner I take a very dim view of them.

Being a "nice guy" and "helping out" is a two way street. Being a nice guy also doesn't mean you have to be subserviant.

But like I said ... what do I know.
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(edit) Or just suck it up, fly the stupid trip, take the paycheclk (whenever they get around to sending it) and don't look back. I dunno, it's a tough call ...
 
Dude, let me say this: If you haven't already done so, go get another job. Screw these guys you're working for. Obviously you've had it and they know it. There are plenty of jobs out there, go find one. They're not doing you any favors, so neither should you. Believe me, I'm all for never burning bridges etc. and keeping in contact with former employers. That is VERY important.

However, there are some ass hole employers (there's really no other way to put it) that don't deserve the courtesy. If they run a crumby ship, chances are that no one in the industry respects them anyway. Do what's best for you, not them. They don't deserve that. Do something quick and don't waste anymore of your valuable life.
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The key word here is integrity ... yours and the companies.

Yours: You are a professional pilot and as such you deserve to be treated with due respect. You need to stand up for what is fair, you work hard, show up on time and provide the customer with safe courteous transportation ... therefor you should be accorded a fair and decent pay check on time and consideration as opportunities within the company arise.

Story: I got a phone call one time from a "friend" who I did some part time flying for, he tells me I am his last hope and he was in a bind for a copilot for the following day. I told him to pound sand ... if he would have just said that he needed a pilot I would have done it, but to insult me by telling me I was his last resort I knew what my position was. It is freeing getting away from this crappy situations.

The Company: It sounds like this operation lacks in integrity in the way it is treating you. To diss a current employee who is willing to work hard and make the appropriate sacrafices and who is trying to "make" it in this industry is incredulous. It sounds like they are willing to make a patsy out of you ... if you let them. They may really kiss up to you on Sat. but where will they be on Mon. when you need to work and earn money?

Your decision is to either accept the fact that they will only be calling you when they need you, regardless of your needs, or it is to move on and take care of yourself. I think if you articulate your needs to them it won't hurt your recommendation for another job. If its time to move on its time to move on.

Jim
 
Sounds like your gut feeling is to let the trip go. Best roll with that, but explain to the company directly (but tactfully) about why you need to sit it out and how your current situation has become very difficult and basically unworkable. Might not make any difference, but at least they will be clear about your situation.

And you're looking for a better job, right?

Whatever you do, I suggest handling the difficult situation with as much dignity and professionalism as possible. I think good communication is a part of that. When you interview for your next job, you can confidently explain (if the topic comes up) that you were put in a tough situation in your past job, you communicated your concerns to the company but weren't able to maintain a mutually beneficial employment arrangement, and you made the decision to leave under the most favorable terms possible.

Your good reference(s) means a lot. Talk to all your potential references NOW and get them squared away early. Except for your sypathetic D.O., Don't worry about the "company man" types or management types; focus on people like the captains who know about your work ethic firshtand and can personally attest to your value as a professional pilot.

Last but not least, from what I have experienced firsthand and heard secondhand, this type of thing is pretty common in aviation. Any Chief Pilot or D.O. who has been around the block will recognize your situation and it will probably be a non-issue in the next interview - you won't need to "defend" your decision.
 
I like the idea of going in with your trousers down and spelling your name on the bosses desk in the ole yellow ink.
 
F*** that company, they're just taking advantage and once they see you took the shaft one time; they'll continue doing it to ya. Ask your immediate boss who likes you to write you a recommendation, I've asked for them without having a job change in mind. It's just good to have but it's not the end of the world if you don't get one out of him. Listen to the other guy who said to find another job. This sounds like the beginning of an abusive relationship.
 
Well, I'll add my $0.01 (because that's about all it's worth):

ESF, my friend, if it were me in that position, I'd respectfully decline the trip. Sounds like the company has made it obvious that you do not fit in their long-term plans and are - as Jim described - their "last resort".

Regardless of whether you are the low man on the totem pole or not, you should be treated with respect. You have worked just as hard and paid just as much (maybe more) for you ratings as the other guys, you are just as much the Professional Pilot as your counterparts - but it's you they are being disrepecting by saying "You're our last resort, but HEY - we like ya!"

Repsectfully, diplomatically and professionally decline the trip and tell them why. They will respect you more for standing on principal than they will if you let them use you.

I know "standing on principal" doesn't pay the bills, but it doesn't sound like they're going give you enough bank to do that anyway.

Whatever you decide, best of luck!!!! Chin up and keep us posted, bro!!

R2F
 
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