Need Advice

T

terrynabet

Well-Known Member
In a nutshell, I am over $74,000 in debt because I borrowed to go to a flight academy. I have my CMEL, IRA, and PSEL. I have about 230 flight hours, mostly multi time; however I have not flown in over 6 months because of the cost of renting an aircraft and balancing time between working at my airline as a station agent, and completing my BS in aviation administration. I just don't know what I should do now and am looking for any suggestions. I have been thinking about the military. I appreciate any help.
:confused:
 
My two pennies worth. I certainly don't know all the details of your situation, but I think pursuing the military option is a very good idea. I believe that may offer the possibility of some help with loans too. As I understand you will need a degree to get a pilot slot. You might also check out the reserve wings in your state and and other states as well, as they also sometimes offer pilot slots.

There are some military pilots on the forums who can give you better details on the process.

Otherwise you try to find enough $$$ to get your CFI ratings and instruct then move on when things get better. OR

Find some other method of building time. OR

Cut your losses and fly for fun when you have the money and get a non aviation job.

Finish your degree no matter what. Good luck!!
 
Instruct? $75k does sound fairly high, but you aren't alone. Either way you'll need to pay it off, military or otherwise.

I, like many others, am in debt due to flight training. I am just about done with CFI school, and I will be looking everywhere for that first instructing job. In the mean time, I will be looking to do just about anything in order to service my loan payments. It is a situation which I knowingly entered with my eyes open, however. Therefore, I do not begrudge my loan payments. Without them, I wouldn't be able to do what I love, however unpleasant they are.

What is it you are asking? How best to get rid of the loan? What to do next with regard to flying training?

You'll earn a lot more in many other careers outside aviation. That loan will be payed off in no time. On the flip side, you won't be flying. It's the flying that keeps me in it.
 
Lee D said:
My two pennies worth. I certainly don't know all the details of your situation, but I think pursuing the military option is a very good idea. I believe that may offer the possibility of some help with loans too. As I understand you will need a degree to get a pilot slot. You might also check out the reserve wings in your state and and other states as well, as they also sometimes offer pilot slots.

There are some military pilots on the forums who can give you better details on the process.
Click to expand...

I'm not intimately familiar with the commissioning programs of all the services, but I know that the USN and USMC have very little in the way of loan assistance for guys wanting to go aviation who already have degrees. There may be something out there, but more than likely, you would be just another O-1 (2lt or ENS) trying to pay off your 74k in loans with a relatively small paycheck + living expenses. Yes, it would allow you to keep flying, would be a steady paycheck, and you could start paying off the loans. That said, I would highly discourage you from embarking on a career in military aviation if your primary focus is to use it for financial benefits. That in itself will set you up for failure down the road. This is a very challenging program, and you really need to have a deep desire to succeed if you want to make it happen. If you do have an interest in the service, it would be an added bonus, but just know that you will still be pinching pennies at least for the first couple of years if not longer. Just my .02
 
terrynabet said:
In a nutshell, I am over $74,000 in debt because I borrowed to go to a flight academy. I have my CMEL, IRA, and PSEL. I have about 230 flight hours, mostly multi time; however I have not flown in over 6 months because of the cost of renting an aircraft and balancing time between working at my airline as a station agent, and completing my BS in aviation administration. I just don't know what I should do now and am looking for any suggestions. I have been thinking about the military. I appreciate any help.
:confused:
Click to expand...

I'm just trying to straighten this out. You have:

Private Pilot, single engine land
Commercial Pilot, multi engine land
Instrument rating

correct?

If that's the case, IMHO you're in bad shape. You can't do any commercial ops that are common low time operations (sightseeing, banner towing) that use singles; you don't have a CFI. If you find a commercial multi gig, I would consider yourself very lucky.

I would continue your work toward your degree and working as an airline agent. I don't see much in your current cards in the way of being paid to fly. If the military is an option to help you lower your debt, so be it; there are also other jobs out there not related to aviation.
 
Every couple of weeks or so, someone starts a "I think I want to fly in the military" thread in the "Military Pilots" forum. Read up on some of those discussions and also check out the forums on baseops.net. I suggest you do some research on military officership before posting questions of your own, because folks can be a little brutal when someone posts like they have no clue what the military is, or they get the inkling someone wants to join for the wrong reasons.
 
///AMG said:
I'm not intimately familiar with the commissioning programs of all the services, but I know that the USN and USMC have very little in the way of loan assistance for guys wanting to go aviation who already have degrees. There may be something out there, but more than likely, you would be just another O-1 (2lt or ENS) trying to pay off your 74k in loans with a relatively small paycheck + living expenses. Yes, it would allow you to keep flying, would be a steady paycheck, and you could start paying off the loans. That said, I would highly discourage you from embarking on a career in military aviation if your primary focus is to use it for financial benefits. That in itself will set you up for failure down the road. This is a very challenging program, and you really need to have a deep desire to succeed if you want to make it happen. If you do have an interest in the service, it would be an added bonus, but just know that you will still be pinching pennies at least for the first couple of years if not longer. Just my .02
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I agree. I should clarify that I didn't mean that it was a good idea JUST for financial help with his loans. . . if any is available. Even if it provides no real relief from his debt load, I strongly think it is worth considering.

Apples to oranges, but a good friend of mine, a young attorney, is getting into the army as part of their legal program. (Whatever the Army version of JAG is.) One of the big incentives they are offering is some sort of bonus or whatever, I don't know the details, that would help with his loans.
 
Lee D said:
I agree. I should clarify that I didn't mean that it was a good idea JUST for financial help with his loans. . . if any is available. Even if it provides no real relief from his debt load, I strongly think it is worth considering
Click to expand...

Absolutely, just thought I'd add some amplifying info for the OP :beer:
 
terrynabet said:
In a nutshell, I am over $74,000 in debt because I borrowed to go to a flight academy. I have my CMEL, IRA, and PSEL. I have about 230 flight hours, mostly multi time; however I have not flown in over 6 months because of the cost of renting an aircraft and balancing time between working at my airline as a station agent, and completing my BS in aviation administration. I just don't know what I should do now and am looking for any suggestions. I have been thinking about the military. I appreciate any help.
:confused:
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear about your situation Terry. You might remember speaking to me several years ago at the FBO on the other side of the field, I was a full time flight instructor then. Looks like you should have done your training locally but hindsight is 20/20...

My advice would be to get your CFI with us and talk to our chief flight instructor. We'll be needing instructors here in a few months. Unfortunately it looks like you'll have to get your Commercial single add-on first; I know accruing more debt is not something you're keen on at this point.

All that said, soon rather than later I'll be working with the chief flight instructor to train 2 or 3 people for their initial CFI. You'd be more than welcome to join if it's feasible.
 
I've been looking into military for the past few months (army national guard in particular).

The military incentives like student loan repayment only have to do with government loans. If you borrowed from private institutions (like me), those student loans do not qualify. If you have all stafford loans, they can pay up to 50k. The GI bill can even help you finish or get you another degree. If not, you're screwed.

If you enlist active duty the pay sucks. About 1500 a month. But consider your overhead, almost nothing. You can get BAH which can add up. A friends little brother enlisted Army about two years ago. Hes 20 years old. Between his pay and allowences he takes home over 3k a month. I was living in my car at his age 'livin da pilot dream'. In fact I dont think I ever broke 3k a month flying (7 yrs later). You might even get a higher grade depending on your college credits. More than 60 credits enlists at E-3 and an associates might get you an E-4 off the bat.

2010 officer pay for an O-1 is 2745 a month. BAH without dependents is another 1020 if you were stationed in Detroit (just an example). I dont know too many flying jobs (or any other for that matter) that will pay 3800 a month right out of school. Does anyone else?

The guard/reserve is a for sure pay check every month. Not much, but it could pay for your whole schooling through the GI bill and the check can go towards your student loan payment. On top of that, you will at least have basic insurance. When I had a good job I had dental but no reason to go. Now two years later unemployed I have two teeth rotting away and still no money to fix them.

And then there are the bonuses. From what I have heard there are no signing bonuses right now. There is a bonus for becoming an officer but not much. And any bonus they offer you will probably be paid half after tech school and the rest over your enlistment.

There are many reasons to join the military. Money should not be at the top of that list, but there are some pretty good incentives. Especially since you are looking at some pretty large loan payments and years of low paying jobs to get going.
 
And then there is the Foreign Legion. After a five year commitment you start a whole new life with a whole new identity. :rawk:
 
FBI wont hire him with that much debt. He would be too high of a risk to sell secerts to pay off the debt. Thats one the main reasons people get denied. Even agents who are with them can get let go if they get way over their head in debt.
 
Lee D said:
Apples to oranges, but a good friend of mine, a young attorney, is getting into the army as part of their legal program. (Whatever the Army version of JAG is.) One of the big incentives they are offering is some sort of bonus or whatever, I don't know the details, that would help with his loans.
Click to expand...

The difference here is that he already has a specialized skill set that the military needs. Just like doctors. Hence the bonus and financial help.

They are not warfighters, but support staff. You, on the other hand would be looking at what would be considered a warfigher billet. Regardless of your flying skills, they would still make you learn to fly their way, (Caveat: At least they did it that way back in another life,) so there may not be any bonuses for you. If you are not comfortable with going in harm's way and being the tip of the spear, do not go the military route.

While everyone certainly has different ways to skin the cat, I would concentrate on finishing your degree and quite possibly getting your CSEL. Without it, you are cut off from a lot of low paying flying jobs, where you can at least built your hours. As for the 75 large you owe, you may have to get comfortable living with that for awhile, paying only the minimum payments. However, DO NOT default on that bad boy, because then you are really screwing yourself.
 
Lee D said:
My two pennies worth. I certainly don't know all the details of your situation, but I think pursuing the military option is a very good idea. I believe that may offer the possibility of some help with loans too. As I understand you will need a degree to get a pilot slot. You might also check out the reserve wings in your state and and other states as well, as they also sometimes offer pilot slots.

There are some military pilots on the forums who can give you better details on the process.

Otherwise you try to find enough $$$ to get your CFI ratings and instruct then move on when things get better. OR

Find some other method of building time. OR

Cut your losses and fly for fun when you have the money and get a non aviation job.

Finish your degree no matter what. Good luck!!
Click to expand...


I like the cut your losses and fly for fun option the best. You can always attempt a flying career again whenever the economy picks up, if that is what you still want.

You will more than likely get your loan paid off faster if you take a better paying non-flying job.
 
I'd say there is pretty close to zero chance the military will help pay back those loans. You might run into some problems getting a top secret clearance with debt like that as well...not sure how they figure all that stuff out. O-1 pay in training is not great - especially if you live in the dorms (which you pretty much have to do). You won't get BAH for the first year and change, so you're just taking home base pay and flight pay.

ANG might be able to help you more, but I'm not sure. They typically have more bonuses and education related benefits. Army National Guard is going to be a tough route to wings unless you want to fly helicopters.

I would finish your degree and do whatever it takes to pay those loans. As a suggestion, with a CPL you might score a job flying UAVs after school...not kidding. Ratheon and some other companies pay a ton of money even for sensor operators. If you deploy it's tax free and you're no kidding looking at 6 figures your first year (if you deploy). A good friend of mine just finished paying off his ~70k debt after about a year and a half as a sensors operator.
 
mhcasey said:
I'd say there is pretty close to zero chance the military will help pay back those loans. You might run into some problems getting a top secret clearance with debt like that as well...not sure how they figure all that stuff out. O-1 pay in training is not great - especially if you live in the dorms (which you pretty much have to do). You won't get BAH for the first year and change, so you're just taking home base pay and flight pay.

ANG might be able to help you more, but I'm not sure. They typically have more bonuses and education related benefits. Army National Guard is going to be a tough route to wings unless you want to fly helicopters.

I would finish your degree and do whatever it takes to pay those loans. As a suggestion, with a CPL you might score a job flying UAVs after school...not kidding. Ratheon and some other companies pay a ton of money even for sensor operators. If you deploy it's tax free and you're no kidding looking at 6 figures your first year (if you deploy). A good friend of mine just finished paying off his ~70k debt after about a year and a half as a sensors operator.
Click to expand...

He could enlist, and be a Navy Nuc (if he could get the slot) or an EOD guy. The pay and bonuses are good, but that chance of getting killed maimed or potentially booted during the rigorous training may preclude that being a safe option.

A $50,000 bonus might be just what the doctor ordered if he could find an MOS that would offer it.
 
terrynabet said:
In a nutshell, I am over $74,000 in debt because I borrowed to go to a flight academy.
:confused:
Click to expand...

We'll, at least you have medical insurance now.

t1main.obama.cnn.jpg
 
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