NDBs - When will they be gone?

JaceTheAce

JaceTheAce

Well-Known Member
I thought the FAA was going to start phasing them out in 2006? Or is it 2008 like this website says?

[FONT=FUTURA, ARIAL]RADIOBEACONS
Stand-alone non-directional radio beacons (NDBs) will be phased out starting in 2008. NDBs needed as compass locators will be phased out when the underlying ILSs are withdrawn. A separate transition plan will be developed for Alaska due to the wide use of NDBs for en route navigation.
During the next 10 years, FAA expenditures for the 700 beacons will be limited to replacing deteriorated components, modernizing selected facilities, and establishing or relocating NDBs for ILS transition.

[/FONT]
 
VOR's should be completely phased out simetime in 1998. iow, dont hold your breath.

As it is now, thier NDB policy seems to be "let it run till it breaks, then turn it off"
 
casey said:
VOR's should be completely phased out simetime in 1998. iow, dont hold your breath.

As it is now, thier NDB policy seems to be "let it run till it breaks, then turn it off"
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Sometime in 1998? :bandit::bandit::bandit::bandit::bandit::bandit:
 
casey said:
VOR's should be completely phased out simetime in 1998. iow, dont hold your breath.

As it is now, thier NDB policy seems to be "let it run till it breaks, then turn it off"
Click to expand...

Hey I like VOR's. I know that GPS is the future but RNAV even uses VOR's for navigation. VOR's take skill and precession to use. GPS with their DIRECT navigation are for wimps.

-Matthew
 
casey said:
VOR's should be completely phased out simetime in 1998. iow, dont hold your breath.

As it is now, thier NDB policy seems to be "let it run till it breaks, then turn it off"
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Yeah, thats what I have been hearing and have noticed. A few of the NDB's that have broken around here have been closed
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Hey I like VOR's. I know that GPS is the future but RNAV even uses VOR's for navigation. VOR's take skill and precession to use. GPS with their DIRECT navigation are for wimps.

-Matthew
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Yeah I like VOR's too :D and ILS's.

They require more :sitaware:!
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
VOR's take skill and precession to use. GPS with their DIRECT navigation are for wimps.
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I used to think the same things,Max. however, I soon realized that GPS navigation is a much better fit in todays IFR environment. In order to properly use GPS, you have to have the same skill set required to use the VOR system (i.e. wind correction, etc). Furthermore, anything that you can do with a VOR/OBS, you can do with a GPS unit. Can you use OBS mode with a VOR? Can you hold at a a VOR radial/DME fix, along a holding course that's NOT a radial from the VOR without a GPS?

In addition, I can use a GPS and fly a route along airways just as easily as you can with a VOR. So, there's no loss of capabilities!
 
I think GPS can be just as challenging if you use it like you use a VOR. You know, swiching to a different nav page other than the moving map page. That "follow the pink line" crap just makes you lazy in SA I think. Sure its nice to have if you need to figure where you're at real fast. I still prefer ILS's and VOR's though.

Its just another tool to make you better and more efficient. But I think to many people use it as a crutch.
 
You shouldn't be "following the pink line" when flying with a GPS, anyway (assuming we're talking about IFR). You should be using a VOR indicator or HSI and keeping the needle centered!
 
mtsu_av8er said:
You shouldn't be "following the pink line" when flying with a GPS, anyway (assuming we're talking about IFR). You should be using a VOR indicator or HSI and keeping the needle centered!
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what if you slaved the GPS to the CDI :p
 
Philip said:
what if you slaved the GPS to the CDI :p
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That's exactly what I'm talking about! You still have to keep the needle centered!

Is there any other way to fly IFR with a GPS other than using an external CDI? Assuming we're not talking about all-glass (i.e. G1000, etc).
 
mtsu_av8er said:
That's exactly what I'm talking about! You still have to keep the needle centered!

Is there any other way to fly IFR with a GPS other than using an external CDI? Assuming we're not talking about all-glass (i.e. G1000, etc).
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Ohhhh, thought you meant actually tracking a VOR :p

I'm sure on some there is, they'll give you a heading reference so you could fly that heading, like dead reckoning, or flip it to a CDI screen type of thing, who knows what all is out there, get creative :p

Ever cheat and use the GPS heading info during no gyro procedures? Of course I would never do such things....
 
I will miss it when NDB's are all gone. They ARE the easiest instrument to interpret, but require the most DISCIPLINE to use! As a CFI-I, I find that that those who learn the heading control needed to accurately use NDB procedures subsequently fly better VOR's, better ILS's, and ahem... better GPS direct courses. As a freight guy I had the lucky fortune in October of having a VOR outage here in N. California mountain country. It was IFR and I filed a plan DIRECT to an NDB, and the on an outbound bearing to my destination. The FSS briefer and also Seattle Center were both agahst, but I got it and I did it and it was great, and I would do it again :):):):)
 
bluelake said:
I will miss it when NDB's are all gone. They ARE the easiest instrument to interpret, but require the most DISCIPLINE to use! As a CFI-I, I find that that those who learn the heading control needed to accurately use NDB procedures subsequently fly better VOR's, better ILS's, and ahem... better GPS direct courses. As a freight guy I had the lucky fortune in October of having a VOR outage here in N. California mountain country. It was IFR and I filed a plan DIRECT to an NDB, and the on an outbound bearing to my destination. The FSS briefer and also Seattle Center were both agahst, but I got it and I did it and it was great, and I would do it again :):):):)
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Jesus man, I haven't flown one in so long I'd smack a mountain.
 
Philip said:
Ohhhh, thought you meant actually tracking a VOR :p
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Oh, God no! GPS guy here!!!

I'm sure on some there is, they'll give you a heading reference so you could fly that heading, like dead reckoning . . .
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Well, the GPS unit gives you a Desired track, and on the 430, for instance, you can go to the NAV 1 page and the GPS will actually tell you what you're tracking. It's the silliest way to fly, though - just keep the silly needle centered!!

430nav1.jpg


or flip it to a CDI screen type of thing, who knows what all is out there, get creative :p
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There's actually a CDI!!! It, too, is on the NAV 1 page. However, it lags a bit . . . I'd use it if I had nothing else!!

Ever cheat and use the GPS heading info during no gyro procedures? Of course I would never do such things....
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Sometimes, it may be the only thing you have! One of the planes that I fly has an EHSI. If you're going into an airport that only has a GPS approach, that Number 2 NAV indicator is useless. If that EHSI takes a number two, you have no choice but to use the CDI feature in the GPS!!
 
mtsu_av8er said:
Oh, God no! GPS guy here!!!



Well, the GPS unit gives you a Desired track, and on the 430, for instance, you can go to the NAV 1 page and the GPS will actually tell you what you're tracking. It's the silliest way to fly, though - just keep the silly needle centered!!

430nav1.jpg




There's actually a CDI!!! It, too, is on the NAV 1 page. However, it lags a bit . . . I'd use it if I had nothing else!!



Sometimes, it may be the only thing you have! One of the planes that I fly has an EHSI. If you're going into an airport that only has a GPS approach, that Number 2 NAV indicator is useless. If that EHSI takes a number two, you have no choice but to use the CDI feature in the GPS!!
Click to expand...

When I get rich and build my van's RV6 I'll have all electric, no vac gyros, and a pair of G1000's :p

I'm pretty familiar with the 430, sure beats the KLN89b
 
Philip said:
When I get rich and build my van's RV6 I'll have all electric, no vac gyros, and a pair of G1000's :p

I'm pretty familiar with the 430, sure beats the KLN89b
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The 430/530 series is awesome! In the 206, we have a 530, a 430 and an EHSI. It's wonderful.
 
mtsu_av8er said:
The 430/530 series is awesome! In the 206, we have a 530, a 430 and an EHSI. It's wonderful.
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UND had mostly dual 430's, a few old king's knocking around but I'm sure they've been phased out. it's just been 3 years since I've touched one.
 
Philip said:
UND had mostly dual 430's, a few old king's knocking around but I'm sure they've been phased out. it's just been 3 years since I've touched one.
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Still have them. This summer we sent away the last 8 warriors or so that had the KLN 89B's in them but the majority of our arrows and seminoles still have the bendix units in them. Now I have to spend time with my commercial and especially multi students teaching them how to use the bendix units. Our airport store doesn't stock the manuals and most students are too lazy to look manuals up online so I have to review how to use the bendix in IFR with my multi's and sometimes basic operation with my commercial students now because thats what they'll likely have for their checkride.
 
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