NDB Approaches
- Thread starter rajsingh
- Start date
gomntwins
Well-Known Member
I agree wholeheartedly. If it's in the airplane a pilot should know how to do it. I had to do an NDB approach on my instrument ride.
Off topic, but on: I'd say NDB's are a lot more important than a lot of pilot's like to believe. Personally, I shoot NDB approaches on a fairly regular basis. The airplane's I fly aren't equipped with GPS so that limits us to NDB's into a fair number of airports. I'm also getting sick of everybody wanting to decommission them. If it happens it happens, but I for one am not looking forward to limiting the airports I can and cannot get into because the equipment I fly is not GPS equipped. The closest suitable alternate to my base has an NDB approach that I've shot a number of times. Getting rid of that approach will essentially get rid of my closest and usually best alternate.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
Maybe Austin would have been uderstanding at FLX if I had said, "Let's skip the NDB approach - I've never done one".
I'd recommend you not take this advice. An examiner busted someone for doing that around here. It came out that the CFI had recommended he do it, and he ended up at FSDO for a little talk. I'm not sure the outcome, but I'm sure it's not anything you want to mess with.
flyinawa
Well-Known Member
Learn it. I fly an Airbus, an aircraft on which you don't even have to tune or ID because it does it for you. I always have NAV 2 shown on the Navigation display in RMI mode (yeah, I'm a co-pilot). When I get a "maintain present heading to intercept the XXX transition of the YYY arrival" I just glance at the Jep plate, verify the station and change the Nav station if required, and then see what radial I'm on and THEN taking my time programing the Flight Management System. The alternative is racing to reprogram the FMS and praying I get it all done before I overshoot the course.
It's nice to be able to tell the guy I'm flying with, "hey, just turn to a XXX heading, you're on the inbound course right now" while he's scrambling. I think it demonstrates solid situational awareness.
It's nice to be able to tell the guy I'm flying with, "hey, just turn to a XXX heading, you're on the inbound course right now" while he's scrambling. I think it demonstrates solid situational awareness.
Mike H
Well-Known Member
That's the way I always looked at it- you want to head to the station, keep the head of the needle pointed straight up; you want to head away from it, keep the tail of the needle pointed straight up. When you pass the station, the needle flips ends.
You'll invariably have to keep making corrections for wind anyway so guessing at a crab angle and trying to hold it isn't much of a time saver, imo
Just don't let the examiner catch you doing it
CFIT99
I'm probably commenting ironically...
I took my instrument at Univ. of Illinois and the policy was if you were issued a plane with an ADF, an NDB approach was fair game...If you were issued a plane with a GPS (KLN94/GNS430) a GPS approach was fair game.
I got a GPS plane and my checkride went RV's to VOR 22, Hold at EMPTE, DME ARC to ILS 32R then RV's to the outbound Procedure turn GPS 18 Full stop
actually can't believe I remembered that considering it was 5 years ago
I got a GPS plane and my checkride went RV's to VOR 22, Hold at EMPTE, DME ARC to ILS 32R then RV's to the outbound Procedure turn GPS 18 Full stop
actually can't believe I remembered that considering it was 5 years ago
Douglas
Old School KSUX
I'd be interested if you could report back with how that talk went.
There is nothing illegal with deactivating any part of you own avionics as long as you meet the minimum.
Or was it actually operational with an "INOP" placard?
It was operational with an INOP placard. I'm assuming the examiner had seen that tried before and tested it.
I'm not actually sure how the talk went. It was about 3 years ago, and that instructor was on his way out anyway. My guess is they pulled his CFI, but it's only a guess.
gne in prog
Well-Known Member
knowing how people feel about ndb approaches, if i were an examiner i would be giving every applicant one. if you could be assigned one in the real world, you should know how to do it.
Mike H
Well-Known Member
Why would you be "assigned" a NDB approach in the "real world"?
If the airport you're flying to only has a NDB approach, that's one thing, but I've never heard of ATC telling a pilot what kind of approach to fly rather than the approach that the pilot requests.
" Approach, Bonanza 1234, request GPS-35 Centennial"
"Bonanza 1234, Approach, sorry, you've gotta fly the NDB today"
Not.
Gonna.
Happen.
scooter2525
Very well Member
you could be "assigned" an NDB if your VOR fails, or the VOR on the field goes down...
Fortunately hasn't happened to me, but I know of freight dogs that it has happened. In the real world.
gne in prog
Well-Known Member
alright, use semantics. glad you used kapa. i've gone in there on the ndb when the loc was down, and we didn't have the raim for the gps. sure they didn't "assign" it, but they did clear us for it.
as you mentioned, many airports still use an ndb approach. though you might not fly internationally now, ndbs are quite prevalent in other parts of the world. how is an examiner to know where and when you are going to be flying one?
if i were the examiner, a loc is just an easier ils. show me the ils, i'll take your word for it on a loc approach. ndb approachs are what many seem to understand the least, so i'd see if you know how to do it.
i don't understand why people are so against doing them. they aren't that accurate, but the mins aren't that low. they aren't difficult to fly, yet everyone complains about them.
poser765
Well-Known Member
Just to reinforce what some have said already. NDBs are not hard at all if you take the time to understand them. The understanding can take a little bit. probably because they aren't as graphical as a VOR, which means you might have to do some mental juggling.Once the light clicks you are golden with them. Just don't be afraid of them.
During my training my insutrctor covered up my AI and DG, then asked me what kind of approach I wanted. I told him a gps. He sternly told me that was a dumb choice when there was a NDB approach. Being young and in love with the magenta line I didn't believe him. Did a few partial panel NDBs and I agreed with him completely. EASY. Tune it in and fly. No setting up the app, no OBS button, no spinning OBS cards. Just tune and go.
During my training my insutrctor covered up my AI and DG, then asked me what kind of approach I wanted. I told him a gps. He sternly told me that was a dumb choice when there was a NDB approach. Being young and in love with the magenta line I didn't believe him. Did a few partial panel NDBs and I agreed with him completely. EASY. Tune it in and fly. No setting up the app, no OBS button, no spinning OBS cards. Just tune and go.
gomntwins
Well-Known Member
I get assigned approaches all of the time. I don't know how the fields you fly into work, but the busier one's I fly into tell me what approach to expect. Sometimes I request other approaches- sometimes they give them to me and sometimes they don't. Granted, I don't have to accept any approach clearance I don't want to, but unless I have a good reason, I'll be shooting the approach they want me to. I'm filed /a so they know what approaches I can and cannot shoot.
If everybody requested the approach they would prefer, and were granted that request, it would cripple a lot of airport- especially when calm winds exist making any runway usuable.
Mike H
Well-Known Member
Not to argue, but I've never seen both the localizer down, AND no raim for the GPS at the same time at APA.
With vertical guidance, I think the ILS is much easier than just a localizer and non-precision approaches with step-down fixes take more work than precision approaches
I don't understand that either. IMO, a NDB is way easier to fly than a VOR approach
gne in prog
Well-Known Member
it happened. last year. another night last winter the loc was down, but so was the weather. off we go to kden, as we couldn't get in to kapa with the gps mins. denver approach gives us 35r. we ask for 35l, as it's much quicker to get to signature. wasn't available. almost like they assigned us 35r.
Mike H
Well-Known Member
I don't think we're talking about quite the same thing. You can be "assigned" which runway to land on based on a lot of factors- but if that runway has multiple approaches ( ILS, GPS, VOR, NDB) ATC is not going to require you to use the NDB or VOR if the ILS is working (unless your equipment isn't working, in which case you'd inform them of the problem anyway)
gne in prog
Well-Known Member
ok.