NDB approaches/holds

[jrh]

I totally disagree w/ this.

That's ok, that's why I prefaced my advice with the warning that it might be unpopular...

Especially in the area he's at NDB approaches are a reality.

Just so you know, I'm based about 50 miles away from Ayork. I know this area really well. NDB approaches are available, but extremely rarely used. In fact, I'd dare say they are *only* used in training. I've flown in this area for more than three years and have yet to hear an aircraft get cleared for an NDB approach in IMC.

I'd challenge you to find an airport within, say, 200 nautical miles of OMA that has an NDB approach, yet does not have a GPS or VOR approach. I haven't found one yet.

I know our pilot's only have the NDB approach to get into some of our outstations.

This is precisely why I told him he needs to learn it sooner or later.

I didn't learn how to use an ADF/RMI until I was a CFI and wish I had the option to learn it earlier. Just didn't have a plane with a non-INOP ADF in it. If you have an airport and a plane to practice with, definitely learn it otherwise it will fall to the wayside.

...yet you still managed to survive and find work as a professional aviator.

Of course in an ideal world everybody would learn how to use every piece of equipment available. But that's not reality because two things limit (to some extent) every pilot in training. Time and money. I wish I'd learned about Sandel EHSIs, Garmin G1000s, various GPSs, various autopilots, tailwheel flying, and many other things earlier in my career. I wasn't exposed to any of those things until I had 1000+ hours. But I still did ok.

NDBs and ADFs are one of those things. Nice to know? You bet. Need to know? At some point down the road, yes. But I'd never think less of a pilot who didn't mess with it and just got the rating done.

Learn to fly the airplane like a competent pilot instead of worrying about passing a checkride, it will help you in the long run.

Absolutely agree. Which is why I gave the advice that I did. Ayork is still in high school, for goodness sakes. He's got plenty of time to build experience as an aviator. And I can tell you, he's better off focusing on what he'll do in real world ops for the next several years (read: *not* NDB approaches) than banging his head against a wall trying to learn something that doesn't even apply for several years. It's not like he's going straight in to a job hauling freight in Alaska.

 

[A150K]

When you were still a youngin, there used to be an NDB 35 at KABQ I used to often fly as a freight dog.

How long ago was that? I still consider myself young (you're young till you hit 30, right?) 35 has an RNAV IAP with LPV minimums now (just 50 feet higher than the ILS to 3). There also used to be an NDB 2 up in SAF..

 

[MikeD]

How long ago was that? I still consider myself young (you're young till you hit 30, right?) 35 has an RNAV IAP with LPV minimums now (just 50 feet higher than the ILS to 3). There also used to be an NDB 2 up in SAF..

It disappeared in the early 2000s, as it was in the way of the Isleta DZ to the south.

 

[MikeD]

I'd challenge you to find an airport within, say, 200 nautical miles of OMA that has an NDB approach, yet does not have a GPS or VOR approach. I haven't found one yet.
.

There's three not so far from me here, KFHU, KFFZ, and KSOW.

 

[jrh]

There's three not so far from me here, KFHU, KFFZ, and KSOW.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

I was trying to illustrate that the OP probably isn't going to be in the spot of *needing* to shoot an NDB approach for years to come. He's not going to have the utility or safety of his instrument rating compromised in the near term if he doesn't understand NDBs. Anywhere that he wants to go will have an alternative GPS or VOR approach to choose from, or else no approaches at all.

Heck, I fly IFR all the time and the last time I shot an NDB approach, for real, was about 6 or 7 years ago. I've only shot an NDB approach twice the entire time I've lived in Nebraska, and that was in VFR conditions while training a CFII applicant in his own plane, which happened to have an ADF.

Knowing how to use an NDB/ADF is an important skill, no doubt. I'm not claiming it's entirely outdated or worthless. I'm saying that for this particular situation, the OP could save himself time, money, and hassle, without any detriment in the next few years, by skipping it.

 

[Fly_Unity]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

I was trying to illustrate that the OP probably isn't going to be in the spot of *needing* to shoot an NDB approach for years to come. He's not going to have the utility or safety of his instrument rating compromised in the near term if he doesn't understand NDBs. Anywhere that he wants to go will have an alternative GPS or VOR approach to choose from, or else no approaches at all.

Heck, I fly IFR all the time and the last time I shot an NDB approach, for real, was about 6 or 7 years ago. I've only shot an NDB approach twice the entire time I've lived in Nebraska, and that was in VFR conditions while training a CFII applicant in his own plane, which happened to have an ADF.

Knowing how to use an NDB/ADF is an important skill, no doubt. I'm not claiming it's entirely outdated or worthless. I'm saying that for this particular situation, the OP could save himself time, money, and hassle, without any detriment in the next few years, by skipping it.

I just got home from doing an NDB approach close to mins, Our company does them quite often as well as on our 6 month checkrides with the feds, of course we dont have the pleasure of GPS like some

I do find though that if a student understands an NDB approach he WILL fully understand radials and the fundamentals of ANY approach. I never learned to do a NDB approach until I was a CFII, but up north here in MT its still one of the most common approaches for /U.

 

[MikeD]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

I was trying to illustrate that the OP probably isn't going to be in the spot of *needing* to shoot an NDB approach for years to come. He's not going to have the utility or safety of his instrument rating compromised in the near term if he doesn't understand NDBs. Anywhere that he wants to go will have an alternative GPS or VOR approach to choose from, or else no approaches at all.

Heck, I fly IFR all the time and the last time I shot an NDB approach, for real, was about 6 or 7 years ago. I've only shot an NDB approach twice the entire time I've lived in Nebraska, and that was in VFR conditions while training a CFII applicant in his own plane, which happened to have an ADF.

Knowing how to use an NDB/ADF is an important skill, no doubt. I'm not claiming it's entirely outdated or worthless. I'm saying that for this particular situation, the OP could save himself time, money, and hassle, without any detriment in the next few years, by skipping it.

oh I thought you meant that stand-alone NDB IAPs don't exist anymore without an overlay or some sort. They may not over there, but they are still around. Of course, at many airports, they're not the only IAP available, so definitely needing one may not matter unless GPS fails in the aircraft or system-wide.