NDB approaches/holds

Ayork62493

Ayork62493

GBR
Yeah, the head of the needle points to the station.

I'm working on my instrument rating at the moment, and my instructors way of teaching is less than par.
I've taught myself pretty much everything, I'm fine with alll other material required for the rating. I just can't grasp NDB's...
They confuse the crap out of me. All we do when we go fly them is he tells me what to do and I do it. No explanation as to why.
So, NDB runway 12 at MLE.
http://dtpp.myairplane.com/pdfs/05830N12.PDF
I know it's a lot to type, but perhaps through a group effort someone could clear this up for me?
Thanks
 
Ayork62493 said:
Yeah, the head of the needle points to the station.

I'm working on my instrument rating at the moment, and my instructors way of teaching is less than par.
I've taught myself pretty much everything, I'm fine with alll other material required for the rating. I just can't grasp NDB's...
They confuse the crap out of me. All we do when we go fly them is he tells me what to do and I do it. No explanation as to why.
So, NDB runway 12 at MLE.
http://dtpp.myairplane.com/pdfs/05830N12.PDF
I know it's a lot to type, but perhaps through a group effort someone could clear this up for me?
Thanks
Click to expand...

Does the airplane have an RMI, Movable, or Fixed Card ADF?

This is also a great site to use to "picture" navigation with an ADF/NDB better.
 
for a fixed card:
mh+rb = mb
magnetic heading + relative bearing = magnetic bearing
heading on the DG + where the needle points = the bearing to the station


All they did when they made a moveable card was take out the simple calculation by allowing you to turn to the heading you are on now which then make it pointing to the magnetic bearing right away.

if you have trouble remembering which one is which remember the sentence "My Hot + Red Balls = Makes Babies"
 
Alright, so I think I have that down.
But when the winds come into play I have a hard time keeping on course.
How do you guys deal with wind corrections?
 
look up tracking vs. homing. tracking specifically will help.
start with a 10 degree correction in the direction of the wind. if its too much, take out 5, if its not enough, add another 5-10 until the needle stays tracking to the right heading
 
Ayork62493 said:
Alright, so I think I have that down.
But when the winds come into play I have a hard time keeping on course.
How do you guys deal with wind corrections?
Click to expand...

Play with the winds in the sim, I don't like giving "book" rule of thumbs. They never seem to work in the real world. If you're not getting the desired result, fix it.
 
Here;s what my instructor says...
Make the angles equal, he never really told me what that even means. I just attempt to correct it in the air, and he just rambles about headings and angles while we're flying.
It's just one giant faceplam.

I should have been more specific, how do deal with wind corrections with NDB's.. I know how with everything else, and I would think it's the same with an NDB. But he says it's completely different?
 
Ayork62493 said:
Here;s what my instructor says...
Make the angles equal, he never really told me what that even means. I just attempt to correct it in the air, and he just rambles about headings and angles while we're flying.
It's just one giant faceplam.
Click to expand...

If you're not clicking with the instructor, dump him, don't waste his time and your money. It doesn't hurt my feelings if my student and I weren't clicking. It happens. Try taking little cuts at it, just like flying an ILS. 5 degree's correction, 10, 15 etc...
 
hes probably talking about "crorrection = deflection" method. where if the needle delfects 10 degrees off, you turn 10 degrees to match that to get back on course. hopefully the needle in your plane is not too shakey
 
Ayork62493 said:
Here;s what my instructor says...
Make the angles equal, he never really told me what that even means.
Click to expand...


Ok... MAKE him explain it if you don't understand.


I should have been more specific, how do deal with wind corrections with NDB's.. I know how with everything else, and I would think it's the same with an NDB. But he says it's completely different?
Click to expand...

You need to communicate with your instructor if you don't understand something he says. That is what he is being paid to do, make him work.

If a student doesn't understand something and fails to question the instructor, that doesn't make a bad instructor, it makes a poor student.
 
TwoTwoLeft said:
...that doesn't make a bad instructor, it makes a poor student.
Click to expand...

Faults on both parts, a good instructor should be able to determine a student showing deficiency in an area and take it upon himself to provide retraining. The student is throwing up a defense mechanism in your example (which I don't think is happening in the OP's case) and the instructor is failing to realize it.
 
jhugz said:
Faults on both parts, a good instructor should be able to determine a student showing deficiency in an area and take it upon himself to provide retraining. The student is throwing up a defense mechanism in your example (which I don't think is happening in the OP's case) and the instructor is failing to realize it.
Click to expand...

say again please.

verify my trafficaaerr
 
crazyjaydawg said:
say again please.

verify my trafficaaerr
Click to expand...

You doing IFR yet? That's where the fun begins.

Phoenix APP, Transfright tree eight eight, deer varrery 1 departure request gps-a into farckon field with information rulu.

And Farkon Field sounds a little closer to an explicit.
 
TwoTwoLeft said:
Ok... MAKE him explain it if you don't understand.




You need to communicate with your instructor if you don't understand something he says. That is what he is being paid to do, make him work.

If a student doesn't understand something and fails to question the instructor, that doesn't make a bad instructor, it makes a poor student.
Click to expand...

I have asked, I've tried to learn it on my own just as I do with the other material.
There are plenty of people here who know what they're talking about. So, I asked here.
 
Ayork62493 said:
Here;s what my instructor says...
Make the angles equal, he never really told me what that even means. I just attempt to correct it in the air, and he just rambles about headings and angles while we're flying.
It's just one giant faceplam.

I should have been more specific, how do deal with wind corrections with NDB's.. I know how with everything else, and I would think it's the same with an NDB. But he says it's completely different?
Click to expand...


This explains what he is talking about:

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...VN2Rot&sig=AHIEtbTYOggOAxw00Q9PQCgMw9bui0sv6Q

Slide 12
 
Ayork62493 said:
I have asked, I've tried to learn it on my own just as I do with the other material.
There are plenty of people here who know what they're talking about. So, I asked here.
Click to expand...

Its doesn't seem like you're too happy with your instructor. Why can't you change?
 
TwoTwoLeft said:
Its doesn't seem like you're too happy with your instructor. Why can't you change?
Click to expand...

I don't have the money to change again. I had a great instructor prior to this, but unfortunately he has left town. I spent 700 bucks and a ton of stress just trying to find one around here that wasn't going to charge me for every step I took in the flight school.
All I really need an instructor at this point for is simulated instrument time and to prep for the checkride.
 
Ayork62493 said:
Alright, so I think I have that down.
But when the winds come into play I have a hard time keeping on course.
How do you guys deal with wind corrections?
Click to expand...

Assuming you understand the basis but can't put it into pracctice, you're in the same boat with a lot of others!

I started using this when I was working on my CFII using a friend as a guinea pig and he now flies NDB approaches better than I do.

The one time that can always know where you are in relation to the courseline is when your heading agrees with it. Bearing to the staion 256? If your heading is also 256, the needle will tell you whether you are right, left or on target.

So, what I do is have the pilot periodically turn to the on-course heading - even if he thinks his wind correction is perfect. It acts as a quick and immediate cross-check of whether the wind correction you have been using is working.
 
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