Navy T-34 down in New Orleans

I did find out more, my friend worked at the tower at the navy base down there that night, he says they tried to land at the base and then diverted to Lakefront, the weather was just as bad at the Lakefront though, OVC001 3/4 VIS FG.
 
skidz said:
wow, I flew out of KNEW a lot, I wish I know the details of this.
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Once the mishap investigation board, SRB and JAG investigation are done...what happened will be public knowledge. Otherwise, no need to know. I flew with VT-6, knew Clint and know a bit more of what happened but it's not for public knowledge.
 
Navy pilot's body found in Lake Pontchartrain
nola.com said:
Lt. Clinton Wermers' remains were located about 1 a.m., today, according to a statement released at midday by Naval Air Station, Whiting Field, Fla.

...Wermers' body was found near the airplane, which divers located about 10 p.m., Tuesday in about 15 feet of water, where "visibility was severely limited," according to the Navy statement
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Fair Winds and Following Seas.

May he rest in peace.
 
Im not trying to rake muck, but I heard the story today. What happened shouldnt have happened, especially with an instructor on board. Im sorry for the accident, but hopefully something will be learned.
 
cmill said:
Im not trying to rake muck, but I heard the story today. What happened shouldnt have happened, especially with an instructor on board. Im sorry for the accident, but hopefully something will be learned.
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You heard what story? Unless you're part of the SRB or JAG investigation, you don't know wtf happend and to sit there and say it shouldn't have with an IP on board is total BS. So really, you're raking muck and being a total DB. Can I say it any clearer?
 
So thats how it works? A civilian plane goes down and everyone is free to speculate, a military plane goes down and everyone keeps their mouth shut.

Sorry Hitler, just cause you're in the navy doesn't make you immune from criticism, and since i don't really have to worry about SS troops coming and breaking down my door, ill continue to criticize whoever the hell i want. Got a problem with that?

This is the real world, and its small. Word gets around, deal with it. I suggest you take your gestapo BS somewhere else.
 
cmill said:
So thats how it works? A civilian plane goes down and everyone is free to speculate, a military plane goes down and everyone keeps their mouth shut.

Sorry Hitler, just cause you're in the navy doesn't make you immune from criticism, and since i don't really have to worry about SS troops coming and breaking down my door, ill continue to criticize whoever the hell i want. Got a problem with that?

This is the real world, and its small. Word gets around, deal with it. I suggest you take your gestapo BS somewhere else.
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Not saying that at all.

What he's saying is (if I'm reding correct), essentially, come out with what you heard then vice being cryptic......as in all other accidents that are discussed.

My only problem would be: You want to criticize, then come out and do it, full fledged. Don't hide behind the shadows and play "I have a secret".

And on the SS troops......the way the country is going, they might not be far off......:)
 
cmill said:
So thats how it works? A civilian plane goes down and everyone is free to speculate, a military plane goes down and everyone keeps their mouth shut.

Sorry Hitler, just cause you're in the navy doesn't make you immune from criticism, and since i don't really have to worry about SS troops coming and breaking down my door, ill continue to criticize whoever the hell i want. Got a problem with that?

This is the real world, and its small. Word gets around, deal with it. I suggest you take your gestapo BS somewhere else.
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Making a comment or criticizing without knowing the facts makes you ignorant. So if you want to be ignorant, go right ahead. However, with that ignorance means I'm going to e-hammer ya. If the only way you can deal with it is to cry and call someone a Nazi...hey whatever helps you sleep at night. Wermers was a friend of mine as well and if he f'ed up, so be it but until we know for sure, it's speculation. So yeah, I got a problem with some civilian talking out of his ass. You want to take to PM and discuss it further, let's do it.
 
MikeD said:
Not saying that at all.

What he's saying is (if I'm reding correct), essentially, come out with what you heard then vice being cryptic......as in all other accidents that are discussed.

My only problem would be: You want to criticize, then come out and do it, full fledged. Don't hide behind the shadows and play "I have a secret".

And on the SS troops......the way the country is going, they might not be far off......:)
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Mike you know as well any aviator worth his salt isn't going to speculate, especically on a public form. It's disrespectful and demonstrates ignorance. If he can't handle someone calling him out then he shouldn't have said anything.
 
bunk22 said:
Mike you know as well any aviator worth his salt isn't going to speculate, especically on a public form. It's disrespectful and demonstrates ignorance. If he can't handle someone calling him out then he shouldn't have said anything.
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Fully agree. And thats the thing....to me, if someone wants or chooses to go down that road, then come out with everything there is to be discussed. There is speculation, then there is informed speculation....the kind of discussion that's seeks to learn something from what is known or similar circumstances/similar events, without coming to any "a-ha!" conclusions about anything regarding the accident at hand, since there's nothing official yet.

If someone wants to do the latter, then by all means; but be completely forthcoming about it and do it the right way. If someone wants to do the former.....and especially if someone wants to draw a conclusion that they think they know, bring it forward and back it up. Otherwise, keep it to oneself.
 
MikeD said:
Fully agree. And thats the thing....to me, if someone wants or chooses to go down that road, then come out with everything there is to be discussed. There is speculation, then there is informed speculation....the kind of discussion that's seeks to learn something from what is known or similar circumstances/similar events, without coming to any "a-ha!" conclusions about anything regarding the accident at hand, since there's nothing official yet.

If someone wants to do the latter, then by all means; but be completely forthcoming about it and do it the right way. If someone wants to do the former.....and especially if someone wants to draw a conclusion that they think they know, bring it forward and back it up. Otherwise, keep it to oneself.
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Absolutely and if this "secret" info is valid then let us know and I'll pass on to the CO of VT-6 who is also a friend of mine. It was his T-34C and aircrew that was lost afterall and I'm sure he would love to hear about what his IP had done, especially before the investigation is anywhere near complete. Just spoke with him yesterday matter of fact but didn't talk about the mishap as nothing is known yet....well, except for our civilian expert here with his information :rolleyes:
 
bunk22 said:
Once the mishap investigation board, SRB and JAG investigation are done...what happened will be public knowledge. Otherwise, no need to know. I flew with VT-6, knew Clint and know a bit more of what happened but it's not for public knowledge.
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bunk22 said:
You heard what story? Unless you're part of the SRB or JAG investigation, you don't know wtf happend and to sit there and say it shouldn't have with an IP on board is total BS. So really, you're raking muck and being a total DB. Can I say it any clearer?
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bunk22 said:
Absolutely and if this "secret" info is valid then let us know and I'll pass on to the CO of VT-6 who is also a friend of mine. It was his T-34C and aircrew that was lost afterall and I'm sure he would love to hear about what his IP had done, especially before the investigation is anywhere near complete. Just spoke with him yesterday matter of fact but didn't talk about the mishap as nothing is known yet....well, except for our civilian expert here with his information :rolleyes:
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Here is the question, are you part of SRB or JAG? If not how do you know more as indicated? Sad to say people talk, others listen. I'm not in the commerical side, but know people who are, and do find things out before being public knowledge.
 
ComplexHiAv8r said:
Here is the question, are you part of SRB or JAG? If not how do you know more as indicated? Sad to say people talk, others listen. I'm not in the commerical side, but know people who are, and do find things out before being public knowledge.
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Nope not a part of it at all and thus can't make a judgement call. I will tell you this, I flew with the squadron in question, flew with Clint and know lots of IP's down there. So do I hear things, yes. Is it for anyone else's knowledge, especially on a public forum? NO. If anyone really knows anything, the information is not for public knowledge until the investigation is complete. Don't make a judegment call on this pilot until it's over and even then, until you've been there, done that as a military IP in that training environment, the opinion wont' mean a whole lot. The idea is going to be to learn from it and move on.
 
bunk22 said:
Nope not a part of it at all and thus can't make a judgement call. I will tell you this, I flew with the squadron in question, flew with Clint and know lots of IP's down there. So do I hear things, yes. Is it for anyone else's knowledge, especially on a public forum? NO. If anyone really knows anything, the information is not for public knowledge until the investigation is complete. Don't make a judegment call on this pilot until it's over and even then, until you've been there, done that as a military IP in that training environment, the opinion wont' mean a whole lot. The idea is going to be to learn from it and move on.
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I will agree about judgement, but then you want to say if I haven't done it don't talk about it. I don't agree. We can learn without doing. That you the learning on this board will go to nothing. I do not agree with that thought process. Review, and ask questions to learn.
 
ComplexHiAv8r said:
I will agree about judgement, but then you want to say if I haven't done it don't talk about it. I don't agree. We can learn without doing. That you the learning on this board will go to nothing. I do not agree with that thought process. Review, and ask questions to learn.
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Might want to read it again what I said, never said you can't talk about it. I will say that if you haven't been an IP in that regard, your opinion is going to mean as much. If you don't like that, sorry. Is what it is. I posted the comments by cmill for my fellow Naval aviators to see at airwarriors. Maybe I'm overreacting, maybe they feel the same. I'll let them decide but for me, the comment above was absolutely inappropriate and ignorant.
 
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