Naval Air Careers and Peculiarities

Hacker15e said:
I had a VERY similar incident when I went to a joint school once. On the first day, I went to my assigned seat and right next to me was an Army Captain all ready sitting down. So, I put my stuff down on the desk and introduced myself, sticking out my hand toward him. He turned around, looked at my shoulders, and the first words out of his mouth were, "what's your date of rank, Captain?"

The funny part is that the rest of our exchange went very similar to yours:

Me: "Oh, I dunno, January something."

Him: "Well, I'd prefer if you addressed me as 'Captain' or 'sir'."

Me: "Okay, dude, whatever. On the positive side we'll know who the command order is in this class when we start taking battlefield casualties and those Lt Cols and Majors over there die, eh?"
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I'd have said, "with a 'tude like that, you'll be lucky if I address you at all!"
 
MikeD said:
I walk up to him (he's by himself) and introduce myself (I"m a fellow O-3). "John, is it? How you doing....MikeD...I'm the head FAC". He looks at me with disgust, and replies. "Yeah....hey uhhh CAPTAIN....we don't use first names around here, we use rank and surname, GOT IT?" My reply: "No prob John, let me get my guys situated, and I'll get back to you." :D
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There's the Reservist we all know and love.

Funny story, though!
 
MikeD said:
That's right, I'd forgotten about that one. Speaking of....do you guys have any sort of flying remote/military assistance/ALFA involved with the ROKAF F-15Ks?
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Eventually, yes, there will be a similar deal. It will still be onsie-twosie though, and not a whole remote squadron.
 
MikeD said:
I've also noticed that ground unit COs....for example Batallion COs....who aren't aviation, tend to look at Blackhawks, for example, as nothing more than Deuce-and-a-halfs that are tooling around at 50 AGL. And helo pilots as nothing more than infantry at 50AGL. Same for the Apache being nothing more than an arty tube in the same vein.
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Not to make an agruement were there isn't one but Army Aviation (and everything else in the Army) is set up to be in support of the front line troops. Not that I ever bothered to read the doctrine but since flight school its been beat in our heads that we're they're for the ground guys. The Battalions/BCT's that have a good understanding of the capabilities and limitations of Aviation can utilize the aircraft very well.

As far as estabishing date of rank among the WO's its usually to figure out who's responsible for making coffee and who's responsible for posting bail.
 
mjg407 said:
NAVCAD died a few years ago. Just as I was getting out they began to discuss the flying WO, the ALDO concept died a while ago to.
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One of the IP in NFO basic back in 92 was a female ALDO. That was a very rare bird. I had a good buddy that was a NAVCAD that went through AOCS in 91. I think the last navcad was in 93 or 94 when AOCS went away.
BTW, AOCS which ended in 94 didn't go through AI... We had it in OCS.
 
I think mjg407 summed it pretty good. One thing the Navy now likes are joint tours/JPME post DH tour. A disassociated tour is a must as well for making O-5...usually at least. When I first arrived in my fleet squadron back in 97/98, the front office types had plenty of flight time. My first Skipper had over 5,000 flight hours, XO over 4000 hours, next CO/XO over 4000, etc. Now fast forward to my last fleet CO who barely had over 2000 flight hours. He had done at least one joint tour, gone to war college, etc. Besides not being the most experienced pilot in the squadron, he was a piss poor leader. I'm old school and feel you lead from the cockpit. However, staying flying as those old pilots did, is not conducive to making O-5 and command anymore.

I was a T-notcher and blew my knee out in API so it took forever to start API and flight training. Got to the FRS and was med down for something very lame and did not fly for a year. So I get to the fleet way late. Add to that the Navy extends our first sea tours by 6 months, I would have to cut my first shore to just 1.5 years and go on a disassociated tour. I chose to skip it, stay for 2.5 years and roll right into my DH tour. Now I broke out in my sea tour and DH tour. But I had no disassociated tour, no JPME, no war college, etc. That killed me, or so I was told (you never officially find out why you don't make O-5). I just was not competitive.

However, other than my GSA tour in Iraq which I leave on next week, I will have nothing but flying tours under my belt. I come back to the CRM department at NASC and will fly the T-6A Texan II with VT-10 as an associate IP. My last tour, OIC of the prep schoo for Saudi pilots and associate IP with VT-6 (T-34C) was just awesome. I'll retire an O-4 but a flying O-4...can't ask for more than that I think. I also did two flying tours with VRC-30 and was an FRS IP with VAW-120...the absolute worst tour I've had....a nightmare really. I think my Iraqi tour with Army will be better than 120.
 
granlistillo said:
One of the IP in NFO basic back in 92 was a female ALDO. That was a very rare bird. I had a good buddy that was a NAVCAD that went through AOCS in 91. I think the last navcad was in 93 or 94 when AOCS went away.
BTW, AOCS which ended in 94 didn't go through AI... We had it in OCS.
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VQ-1's former skipper was an ALDO.
 
bunk22 said:
I think mjg407 summed it pretty good. One thing the Navy now likes are joint tours/JPME post DH tour. A disassociated tour is a must as well for making O-5...usually at least. When I first arrived in my fleet squadron back in 97/98, the front office types had plenty of flight time. My first Skipper had over 5,000 flight hours, XO over 4000 hours, next CO/XO over 4000, etc. Now fast forward to my last fleet CO who barely had over 2000 flight hours. He had done at least one joint tour, gone to war college, etc. Besides not being the most experienced pilot in the squadron, he was a piss poor leader. I'm old school and feel you lead from the cockpit. However, staying flying as those old pilots did, is not conducive to making O-5 and command anymore.

I was a T-notcher and blew my knee out in API so it took forever to start API and flight training. Got to the FRS and was med down for something very lame and did not fly for a year. So I get to the fleet way late. Add to that the Navy extends our first sea tours by 6 months, I would have to cut my first shore to just 1.5 years and go on a disassociated tour. I chose to skip it, stay for 2.5 years and roll right into my DH tour. Now I broke out in my sea tour and DH tour. But I had no disassociated tour, no JPME, no war college, etc. That killed me, or so I was told (you never officially find out why you don't make O-5). I just was not competitive.

However, other than my GSA tour in Iraq which I leave on next week, I will have nothing but flying tours under my belt. I come back to the CRM department at NASC and will fly the T-6A Texan II with VT-10 as an associate IP. My last tour, OIC of the prep schoo for Saudi pilots and associate IP with VT-6 (T-34C) was just awesome. I'll retire an O-4 but a flying O-4...can't ask for more than that I think. I also did two flying tours with VRC-30 and was an FRS IP with VAW-120...the absolute worst tour I've had....a nightmare really. I think my Iraqi tour with Army will be better than 120.
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I feel for you bunk.... still surprised you didn't screen O-5, usually aviation is really good at screening all their MO's and OPS-Os. But in a VP/VQ you get at least two if not three EP's for the O-4's due to the size of the group.
 
What are some general differences between the P-3 A/B/C models of aircraft, besides the back end (ie- Update II, 2.5, etc)? Are there many differences between some of the foreign models......Iranian P-3F for example? Or would they be a P-3A equivilent?
 
MikeD said:
What are some general differences between the P-3 A/B/C models of aircraft, besides the back end (ie- Update II, 2.5, etc)? Are there many differences between some of the foreign models......Iranian P-3F for example? Or would they be a P-3A equivilent?
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The P-3A and some B's were lighter weight and had the -10 engine vs the -14 (4300 SHP vs 4600 SHP), the heavy weight bravo's and charlies could increase 0 fuel weight to 78K *or 82 for the EP-3s, and max weight of 135 (waiver to 142) vs the Alpha of 127. The foreign models are mostly the same in terms of structure, engines, hyds.... etc, but differences in back end equipment. Right now the Brazil P-3s are getting completely gutted of all the internal equipment for glass cockpits and new back end stuff.
 
mjg407 said:
I feel for you bunk.... still surprised you didn't screen O-5, usually aviation is really good at screening all their MO's and OPS-Os. But in a VP/VQ you get at least two if not three EP's for the O-4's due to the size of the group.
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When I say brake out of my DH tour, I had a #2 of 7 for 9 months. Mid pack and 1/1 EP for my shore tour. A #4 of 21 for 7 months, followed by a #2 of 18 for 2 months for my first shore tour. Just not competitive I think. Never broke out until the end of tour FITREP.
 
mjg407 said:
The P-3A and some B's were lighter weight and had the -10 engine vs the -14 (4300 SHP vs 4600 SHP), the heavy weight bravo's and charlies could increase 0 fuel weight to 78K *or 82 for the EP-3s, and max weight of 135 (waiver to 142) vs the Alpha of 127. The foreign models are mostly the same in terms of structure, engines, hyds.... etc, but differences in back end equipment. Right now the Brazil P-3s are getting completely gutted of all the internal equipment for glass cockpits and new back end stuff.
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Could the heavier weight models still fly the low-level patrol patterns with 2 of 4 engines secured/feathered still, or would they have to burn down fuel or otherwise lighten weight?
 
MikeD said:
Could the heavier weight models still fly the low-level patrol patterns with 2 of 4 engines secured/feathered still, or would they have to burn down fuel or otherwise lighten weight?
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The heavier weight Bravo's and Charlies all had -14's, and all I flew in my career operationally was the Charlies and we could still loiter 2, but normally you had to wait to a certain point to loiter 1, then 2, usually when you burned down to about 46K of fuel you could loiter and start saving gas. Very rare to go to 2 engine loiter, only did it once flying on an Oscar off the coast of AK.
 
MikeD said:
What are some general differences between the P-3 A/B/C models of aircraft, besides the back end (ie- Update II, 2.5, etc)? Are there many differences between some of the foreign models......Iranian P-3F for example? Or would they be a P-3A equivilent?
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Mike I'm pretty sure that the RAAF's AP-3Cs are a world apart from the P-3Cs from which they originated. They've all been given new acoustic, nav, comms & IR equipment and there are suggestions they've been given a shed load of SIGINT gear too. Also saved a couple of thousand kg ZFW.

I think the Kiwis recently upgraded their P-3Ks which were originally P-3Bs.
 
Timmypig said:
Mike I'm pretty sure that the RAAF's AP-3Cs are a world apart from the P-3Cs from which they originated. They've all been given new acoustic, nav, comms & IR equipment and there are suggestions they've been given a shed load of SIGINT gear too. Also saved a couple of thousand kg ZFW.

I think the Kiwis recently upgraded their P-3Ks which were originally P-3Bs.
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Kiwi's have rewinged. But I think Mike was asking if there were any major airframe differences which their isn't. Heck US AIP P-3s are a world apart from a P-3 C Update II.5.

Funny thing is that the Iranians still fly their P-3Fs.
 
Not sure if it has been posted already (busy celebrating a late cinco de mayo and also being done with T-45 instrument sims for a while), the Navy flying WO program is alive and well today. I met many of them while I was in Pcola and API last year. Good group of rockstars there
 
///AMG said:
Not sure if it has been posted already (busy celebrating a late cinco de mayo and also being done with T-45 instrument sims for a while), the Navy flying WO program is alive and well today. I met many of them while I was in Pcola and API last year. Good group of rockstars there
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Yeah, about 10 a year go through. I flew with a few of them as I was recently an IP with VT-6. Absolutely shame that they can only fly P-3's or helo's. No carrier aircraft allowed...jets or E2/C2.
 
Just want to say, I'm really enjoying reading this thread. I'm too old to serve in a military flying capacity now, and there's just a twinge of regret that I didn't know guys like you when I was 17. Might have made things different...
 
bunk22 said:
Yeah, about 10 a year go through. I flew with a few of them as I was recently an IP with VT-6. Absolutely shame that they can only fly P-3's or helo's. No carrier aircraft allowed...jets or E2/C2.
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It's a plot since I truly believe the powers that be in Naval Air, hate everything cept for the point nosed guys....
 
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