NASCAR driver and family in plane crash

I'm just reading what you wrote and I suspect your friend was not being truthful. Was the passenger leaving the airplane or boarding the airplane? Why would someone leaving drop their bag, or more importantly know the lav had been besmirched? And why would you suspect he reloaded the bag, cleaned the toilet and then apparently went and got breakfast at a hotel that had to be the cheapest hotel that the client was not staying in. Sure, I guess it makes sense for you, someone who's never flown pt 135 jets. None of the conversation you posted ever happened, you made it up to dunk, you're punching down big man.

Let me point out a few salient points that you may have missed:
  1. A captain with over a decade left before mandatory 121 retirement.
  2. Went to fly corporate because, and I quote, "Anything has to be better than this (expletive deleted)" and yes, the airline was in rough shape then.
  3. Quit, on the spot, in a foreign country because of the situation, which he told me first-hand.
  4. Re-applied for his job at SouthernJets and returns to the bottom of the seniority list as first officer.
  5. I love ordered lists
  6. This isn't folklore, he's actually a friend of mine.
I don't know the owners of the aircraft, their behavior or their demeanor, but one thing I will say is that the aircraft was one of those types where people that get a little bit of money jump into to flex and probably didn't understand that professional pilots aren't cabbies. Good grief, especially these days, I don't know how some places find experienced pilots because even the third-tier carriers are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars and, with seniority and a modicum of flexibility/creativity, some first-tier carriers can top over 1M here and there.
 
heh, I can tell you first hand I've had a passenger drop their bag at my feet (to load in their rented suburban the FBO drove to the plane) sarcastically apologize for leaving "the lobster roll" they got in ACK in the non-flushing chemical lav for me to clean out as they leave for the Ritz (where I was most certainly not staying).

Foxtrot Romeo Papas

Fookin' Rich People. A term never used endearingly.

Some are awful like that, many are pretty ok, and most are somewhere in the middle, just like the rest of humanity. It's all reflective of how they were raised.
 
At my 121 Supplemental, we don’t always have a mechanic onboard. Go to any USAF base and some US Army airfields, and the fuel people only bring the fuel truck out and roll out / roll up the hoses, as they are POL people and not aircraft people. In those fun times, I get to do the fueling, popping the panel under the right wing, hooking up the single point, and managing the onload with the fuel switches there. Nothing I haven done before back in the day, but the former regular 121 pilots we get, things like this are a severe culture a shock to them. Just like doing their own W&B and entering it appropriately, having no ACARS, figuring their own performance via a book, etc.

121 supplemental is the 135 of the 121 world. My FedEx Feeder on the ATR was very similar. Everything was pen and paper, had to do our own W&B (CG whiz-wheel!) paper flip-book of V-Speeds, etc.

They’d email us the APG data with our flight release and we’d figure it out ourselves.

Fun times.
 
Foxtrot Romeo Papas

Fookin' Rich People. A term never used endearingly.

Some are awful like that, many are pretty ok, and most are somewhere in the middle, just like the rest of humanity. It's all reflective of how they were raised.
Anecdotally l think Midwest Rich People are pretty darn good, in general.

Maybe I/we were just lucky.
 
These are all great reasons to enjoy retirement.

It really is a young pilot's game. Watching two 70 year old pilots loading a few hundred pounds of baggage in the back of a private jet out of Fort Lauderdale in summertime while wearing long sleeves shirts and ties (I'm not sure why older pilots prefer it over an athletic polo) has me thinking of calling an ambulance and having it on standby just in case.
 
It really is a young pilot's game. Watching two 70 year old pilots loading a few hundred pounds of baggage in the back of a private jet out of Fort Lauderdale in summertime while wearing long sleeves shirts and ties (I'm not sure why older pilots prefer it over an athletic polo) has me thinking of calling an ambulance and having it on standby just in case.

This post instantly made me think of the “Top Doctors in America” ads we used to see in those in-flight magazines.
 
It really is a young pilot's game. Watching two 70 year old pilots loading a few hundred pounds of baggage in the back of a private jet out of Fort Lauderdale in summertime while wearing long sleeves shirts and ties (I'm not sure why older pilots prefer it over an athletic polo) has me thinking of calling an ambulance and having it on standby just in case.
I feel attacked. I'm only 50 thank you! Also we wear polo, BUT STILL!
 
A 121 to a 135 would definitely suck. But a great 91 is better than a 121 besides pay usually. I miss my jumpseat privileges but I enjoy making my own schedule. We have awesome training that you don’t get in the airlines and I have support from great mechanics and dispatch.
 
A 121 to a 135 would definitely suck. But a great 91 is better than a 121 besides pay usually. I miss my jumpseat privileges but I enjoy making my own schedule. We have awesome training that you don’t get in the airlines and I have support from great mechanics and dispatch.

Yeah, it really isn’t that hard to “make your own schedule” with a little bit of seniority in 121 either.
 
Foxtrot Romeo Papas

Fookin' Rich People. A term never used endearingly.

Some are awful like that, many are pretty ok, and most are somewhere in the middle, just like the rest of humanity. It's all reflective of how they were raised.
Fortunately that was a one-off though the load of drunk alumni I brought back from a Virginia Tech homecoming one night is a close second place. They were also PNG’d from future business.
 
A lot of you guys are hung up on the ex airline pilot part but forgetting the only reason why a ton of retired guys are still alive is because of 121.

Take all the safety nets away and the crazy wild pilots get to be crazy and wild in the 91 world and bam.

91 gigs like this have zero written FOM, or anything that could be called a manual. Literally nothing on paper.

And just wait until you find out the mx history of a 1980’s jet that was on its last owner until the scrap yard.

I don’t disagree at all. However, knowing that he was prior AF and retired from Delta, he at least was not inexperienced and at least knew the right way to do things.

When I was still working we had "mixed results" (being polite) when hiring retired airline pilots.

One thing I noticed when I started flying with the 30+ year airline career guys is they very often chaffed under newer procedures and standards and yearned for the days of yesteryear when they could cut corners or fly closer to the edge. They longed to be unencumbered by "stupid new limits because young pilots these days can't handle it" when, in reality, it was those older crews flying to close to the performance edge that caused those restrictions in the first place. A great many of them did things improperly because "that's how we did it when I got on this fleet in 1999..." and don't keep up with policy and procedure changes. They aren't the best at recognizing that their long, safe career came not because of their great skill but because the people writing the paychecks had a far better appreciation of the skill level of the average pilot. These are the same guys who spent their life thinking they knew better than everyone else and instead of listening to experts invested all their money in Iraqi Dinars and four ex-wives and have to work to make the alimony payments. Good decision making skills are not what I generally expect when I read accident and incident reports that talk about the "retired airline pilot" unless it's some guy having a heart attack in his custom home built or million dollar Cirrus.

I've dealt with Career 121 pilots going to 91 or 135 on several occasions.
The ratio of good to bad was around 10%/90% with the attitude toward the new job the deciding factor of their success rate.
IF they thing "91/135 is BELOW my skills and experience" Then they will hit the wall (or a mountain) and bail out suddenly with a "This isn't what I signed up for" departure.
Their confidence is WAY higher than their skill level they don't quiet understand how alone they are about to be.

Also their motivation is another key factor.

You get a Delta pilot that aged out, but still owes money to 3 wives and 7 bad investments, his desperation will severely affect his performance.
You get a guy who just wants to keep the skills up, success is much more likely (almost 30%)

121 decision skills and CRM is usually vastly superior with few exceptions while Cargo dogs are vastly better at systems and basic survival.

In order of scary in 91/135 ops
1. Owner Operators (91 usually)
2. Airline Pilots (Furloughed)
3. Airline Pilots (Retired)
4. Air Force Pilots
5. Rookies, right out of school
6. Army Pilots. (Rotorcraft)

Not sure what it is about Army rotorheads... never scared me. You'd think they'd suck at IFR.

(it takes a shock collar set to maximum to get bush pilots to use a [fornicating] checklist)
((same with fighter pilots))
 
Fortunately that was a one-off though the load of drunk alumni I brought back from a Virginia Tech homecoming one night is a close second place. They were also PNG’d from future business.

Hey man, my brain is a bit saturated with acronyms.
What's PNG again??

Brain keeps tellin' me it's Papua New Guinea but I'm 95% that's not right.
 
(it takes a shock collar set to maximum to get bush pilots to use a [fornicating] checklist)
((same with fighter pilots))

I got the checklist right here. (Taps temple)

------
One thing that's nice about being at a small shop is when we do get the occasional egregious •, it takes a quick text from me to put them on DNF list. We don't need the drama.
 
I've dealt with Career 121 pilots going to 91 or 135 on several occasions.
The ratio of good to bad was around 10%/90% with the attitude toward the new job the deciding factor of their success rate.
IF they thing "91/135 is BELOW my skills and experience" Then they will hit the wall (or a mountain) and bail out suddenly with a "This isn't what I signed up for" departure.
Their confidence is WAY higher than their skill level they don't quiet understand how alone they are about to be.

Also their motivation is another key factor.

You get a Delta pilot that aged out, but still owes money to 3 wives and 7 bad investments, his desperation will severely affect his performance.
You get a guy who just wants to keep the skills up, success is much more likely (almost 30%)

121 decision skills and CRM is usually vastly superior with few exceptions while Cargo dogs are vastly better at systems and basic survival.

In order of scary in 91/135 ops
1. Owner Operators (91 usually)
2. Airline Pilots (Furloughed)
3. Airline Pilots (Retired)
4. Air Force Pilots
5. Rookies, right out of school
6. Army Pilots. (Rotorcraft)

Not sure what it is about Army rotorheads... never scared me. You'd think they'd suck at IFR.

(it takes a shock collar set to maximum to get bush pilots to use a [fornicating] checklist)
((same with fighter pilots))
You had me as a believer, right up to Rotowing pilots . 😨 .
 
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