I'm no engineer, but why aren't ALL baggage doors hinged at the leading edge instead of the top or elsewhere? I understand you can't put a piano hinge on all sides due to the curvature of the fuselage, but some hinged mechanism so that if the door isn't secure it doesn't result in an emergency or worse. Second question: Wouldn't there be an alarm (annunciator panel) indicating an unsecure baggage door?
NASCAR driver and family in plane crash
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DropTank
Well-Known Member
All engineering is compromise.
Most likely answer?
MONEY
Like you said, cheap, flat piano hinge vs complicated articulating hinge
Most airplanes DO have door annunciators for "OPEN" but not many have an "unlocked" or "unsecured" indication.
And the latching mechanisms on the older citations are less than ideal.
Which is why the more cynical pilots make a final walk around before each leg, specifically looking for things that will make their best attempt to murder them and their crew/passenger.
They're somehow even worse on the Caravan...
Maybe with the death of a relatively famous person, someone will make a SB adding non sucking door mechanisms.
Because all it takes for change in aviation is smeared blood with charred and fragmented corpses.
T/O w/FSII
Well-Known Member
We’re talking the best of the 70’s designs made in the 80’s here. The older planes had no annunciator other then a simple open closed switch.
The new ones have a switch on both latches AND the lock in the EICAS.
Want to really get upset? The citation cockpit and plane is the most changed plane in existence to keep the same type rating, and now has EICAS. Yet the 737…
Autothrust Blue
”…trusting ze process…”
Incidentally, the P-8A (it’s a 737, but it fires torpedoes and Harpoons) also has EICAS or at least something that looks and acts more like it, so it CAN be done.
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Pretty common for “clients” of the big part 142 sim schools to memorize profiles for the OEI portions of the checkride. The curriculum doesn’t really change, it’s always the same song and dance at either JFK, MEM or ANC due to the sim certification.
Not surprised. I had a friend retire early during Bankruptcy-a-palooza that had never had a job other than the USN or SouthernJets that went to fly corporate.
He lasted two months before reapplying for SouthernJets.
“They dropped their bag at my feet, told me the lavatory was dirty and wouldn’t let me book the same hotel the were staying in”
“Soooo you loaded the bag, cleaned the toilet and enjoyed the breakfast buffet at the Hampton Inn, right? RIGHT?! Oh…”
knot4u
Repeat Offender
I'm just reading what you wrote and I suspect your friend was not being truthful. Was the passenger leaving the airplane or boarding the airplane? Why would someone leaving drop their bag, or more importantly know the lav had been besmirched? And why would you suspect he reloaded the bag, cleaned the toilet and then apparently went and got breakfast at a hotel that had to be the cheapest hotel that the client was not staying in. Sure, I guess it makes sense for you, someone who's never flown pt 135 jets. None of the conversation you posted ever happened, you made it up to dunk, you're punching down big man.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
Some stories are abbreviated and some lists are not sequential.
I’ve had billionaires as passengers and it’s a mix of things that @derg mentioned and much more.
Imagine landing in a country with few English speakers and you need to take care of mechanical issues, catering, aircraft hangars or ramp space, dispatch responsibilities, fueling, and more.
Some 121 guys can’t deal with.
The hotel thing makes sense to me, client wants an additional level of privacy. I hate it when hotel arrangements are in the same hotel and client wants to hang out with you or have face-to-face conversations about changes in scheduling and logistics.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
At my 121 Supplemental, we don’t always have a mechanic onboard. Go to any USAF base and some US Army airfields, and the fuel people only bring the fuel truck out and roll out / roll up the hoses, as they are POL people and not aircraft people. In those fun times, I get to do the fueling, popping the panel under the right wing, hooking up the single point, and managing the onload with the fuel switches there. Nothing I haven done before back in the day, but the former regular 121 pilots we get, things like this are a severe culture a shock to them. Just like doing their own W&B and entering it appropriately, having no ACARS, figuring their own performance via a book, etc.
milleR
Well-Known Member
heh, I can tell you first hand I've had a passenger drop their bag at my feet (to load in their rented suburban the FBO drove to the plane) sarcastically apologize for leaving "the lobster roll" they got in ACK in the non-flushing chemical lav for me to clean out as they leave for the Ritz (where I was most certainly not staying).
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
What’s your experience flying part 135 jets?
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
What’s your experience FLYING corporate?
I can concur with @Derg’s statement having witnessed a career 121 pilot last less than two months flying corporate after retiring. As it turns out that “retirement gig for Corvette gas money” is actually hard work.
KLB
Well-Known Member
They really get frustrated with how spontaneous the flying can be. They can get 2 days notice of and upcoming flight and be in a bad mood about it. And don't let the client not show up on time...that's a complete meltdown. These are the norms of this side of the industry. The plane is a measure of convenience for the client. The client may as well fly the airlines if it weren't for the convenient factor.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Running the 4 wheeler to plow in front of the hangar door, pulling the plane out of the hangar, climbing the 14’ ladder to spray glycol on the top of the tail with a homemade sprayer, checking your own weather, filing your flight plan, driving the crew back from the hospital, fueling the airplane, and putting it away at the end of the trip. In the middle of the night in Alaska. Absolutely loved it but didn’t want to still be doing it in my 60s. Or so I thought.
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
One retiree even left the passenger catering in the FBO and was completely shocked that I had to self disclose the mistake. They were perplexed when I told them “There are no ‘girls in the back’ with a bag of chips and can of soda to smooth it over. The consequences will be far worse if the client services specialist hears about this from the passengers before us.”
In reality forgetting an overpriced sandwich from Rudy’s Inflight Catering wasn’t an ideal situation, but not the end of the world. They were just shocked to hear that details like catering were tracked.
KLB
Well-Known Member
One of the biggest meltdowns that I had from a client when doing 135 charter was when the company forgot to book the client's rental car. I typically send a message to the fbo a prior to arrival of arrival times a services needed. The fbo failed to mention that they had no rental available. We arrive and I immediately notice that their rental was not pulled out to the plane.
When I walked back to the client and explained that he did not have a rental car reserved and the fbo just pulled out whatever they had available, which was a Toyota Corolla, he responded to himself by saying "I'm not mad, I'm not mad, I'm not mad" before telling me that the company had 10 minutes to fix the issue. My fix was to send him on his way in the Corolla and to drive all of their luggage that didn't fit in their car to their hotel.
These are the types of things that you have to handle on this side of the industry. There is no supervisor to call to deal with the clients when they irate. The buck ends with the pilots and we have to find fixes.
The part 91 side has the same challenges except there is no "Oh well. On to the next client" at the end if the flight. The rope is a lot shorter and mishaps are a lot more consequential. On the bright side for me atleast is that I am currently contracting full time and retired guys who can't handle this either quit or are fired quite frequently. Most of my business comes from covering vacancies from these types of pilots until they find full time pilots again!
It’s just cultural differences between operation types. Same thing I talked about in another post between even 121 “regular” and 121 supplemental, that I myself have seen from pilots who have come from the former, to the latter where I fly and are shocked at the things we have to do. Regular 121 pilots are so used to having a whole group of various support folks doing all these various tasks for them that are fairly transparent to them, that it’s a shock to move to an operation where they are now experiencing having to do things themselves. It’s not bad or wrong, it’s just the culture they have operated under for a long time, and either have forgotten how things were in their past life, or have never experienced that segment of aviation in any past flying, so they truly don’t know what they don’t know. But at the same time, it’s not difficult to learn the new culture and function well within it, IF, one has the open mind to do so and to learn how to do something different from what they are used to.