JC has been a huge source of information in helping me choose a flight school, and after a few months of research, I have spent the past three weeks visiting school in order to make my decision.
I am posting this so that other people looking at flight schools can get the same help I did from JC, and I do not mean to start any arguments, this is just my own impressions and thinking process and they maybe different from others.
Anyway, I tried to look at different styles of schools and keep the financial matter out of the decision process for now and compare schools on quality basis only and try and find what fits me best, and only then worry about the money. I narrowed it down to 7 schools before my trip which were: Pan-Am, Ari-Ben, FSA, PEA, DCA (all in Florida) and Mazzei in CA.
Pan-Am:
This was the first school I visited so I didn't know what to expect, but I was quite impressed with what I saw. Due to Hurricane damage the place is being rebuilt and it looks like they will have quite a nice facility soon. The representative that met me was very nice and answered all my nagging questions, we toured all the offices, hanger, flight line, classrooms and housing. He also arranged for a 45 min intro flight (not a back seat) which was great, but it was difficult trying to ask the instructor questions about the school rather than enjoy the flight... I also spoke to most of the students I saw and they all seemed quite happy with the school and their choice (which turned out to be the case in all the schools - so maybe I didn't ask the right people?).
The program seemed very serious and structured, with a good amount of multi time (~110h), and I have little doubt it will be a good education. The housing seemed a bit expensive for what you get - 2 per room, 4 rooms per apartment for 495 a month is a bit expensive, and the housing looked a bit run-down.
The planes (mostly pipers) seemed to be in good shape, all with G430 and the plane to student ratio was very good. One issue I had with the G430 - I was told by the instructor that since the plane has the GPS, it has to be on and used during the flight. Although I know I will also learn how to fly with no GPS, my philosophy says I rather learn to fly with no GPS and then learn how to use it rather than learn with a GPS and then learn how to deal with it failing... I feel you become less dependant on GPS in my approach (but then, I'm not a pilot). Pipers do seem more comfortable than Cessnas though.
I was told the management had been changed a few months ago, which is both good and bad - things were not going to good here before and so might improve, but then you never know with new management...
The ACE part of the program seems nice but the cost (~8K) is a lot for something I'm not sure I really need.
I did feel the everyone there was quite honest with me and did not try to sell me loads of disinformation, which is the impression I got from the forum.
Overall I had a good impression from Pan-Am.
Ari-Ben:
Just across the street from Pan-Am, this school is on the opposite side of the scale - very laid back, do it at your own pace kind of school. Probably more like an FBO, and so is the price.
Much more self study, they have some classes (I think for PPL and CFI) but mostly it's up to you to learn the stuff, the instructors are there if you have any questions. I have nothing against this approach, it's just different from the classroom style but it could also work better for some people. The big advantage of this school is the multi time - 200h which is a big advantage when it comes to meeting the minimums of the regionals, and you may be a better pilot by spending so much time learning in a more complex aircraft rather than a single, fixed gear and prop plane. One advice I got was that what makes a good pilot is experience, not ground school, and this school sure gives you that. On the other hand, they do not use any simulators, which I see as a disadvantage because I think some things can be taught better in an FTD, while in a real aircraft you can not exceed certain limitations you can in the FTD and therefore be more prepared for that when it happens in real life.
The planes were a bit old, but then if they are maintained correctly it should be OK and it is one of the reasons for the low cost.
The housing was quite nice - only 1 per room, 3 rooms per house, first three months for free, then 500 a month.
Overall, a much smaller school than the previous one, but I don't think that's what makes the difference.
FSA:
This school gives a very strong impression through it's size - it's like walking into a small university. Everyone and everything seemed very professional and very strict. They have all the extra stuff that will make you a better pilot. Sophisticated classrooms and tons of planes. I don't think there is any need to go into detail so I will get to the point - I liked the internship option you get if you get hired as an instructor - that could be very helpful if regional job opportunities get scarce. The 4 hours in the Zlin are nice and probably useful. The housing seemed OK and the price is around 500 a month.
Overall you will certainly get excellent training and if comparable to a similar school - Pan-Am, I would choose FSA because I think at a similar price you get better value for your money and an excellent education.
So I ruled out Pan-Am.
PEA:
Another style of school. The tour was OK but I just didn't feel comfortable with this school for my own reasons.
Some points - they have a new program where the FAA approved them to do the COMM with only 160h. Me being a skeptical person, wasn't sure if to believe them, but I have heard the same thing from another school so it probably is true, however, you get less hours 160 (141) compared to 190 (141) and yet the price is the same. The way I think it is done is by skipping the time building section of the course which means you only get 10h solo for PPL and 2h more for COMM. Basically this means that almost all of your flying is with an instructor and almost no hours solo. I believe solo hours are very important for experience and confidence building because that is where no one is there to catch you if you make a mistake and I think I'd rather have them.
Anyway, I ruled out PEA.
DCA:
Again a very big and impressive school, similar to FSA and Pan-Am so I won't elaborate.
Here are a number of points - there is a 4 month waiting list to instruct at the moment, and after that you may get to instruct ground school for two months. They also have the 160h COMM program which I didn't like (see PEA).
I think the school is fine and some people may like it better than me but I would prefer to go to FSA for a similar price. So DCA is ruled out.
ATP:
My last school in Florida. My visit was not too great, and I got the feeling that the person giving me the tour was doing me a favor by showing me around. Probably comparable to Ari-Ben in style.
The main issue was the speed 60+90 days from start to finish. First let me say, I have no doubt that ATP will deliver what they say - I think they can get me through the program that fast, so that is not the issue. What I question is how the learning is done. You have to pass the PPL written 7 days after getting there, and I have no previous knowledge. I was told this is done mainly by learning from the Gleim books. When I asked if I will really know all the material, I was told I just needed to know enough to pass the written, and that I will really learn the stuff later. I just don't like this kind of approach where it's up to you to fill in the gaps. I would rather take some more time and do things the right way.
One more thing that bothered me - I had a list of questions for the school, ones that I wanted to get a reply to in person. When I asked them some difficult questions I was told I should ask the main office (two different places). When I asked for directions how to get there I was told I am not allowed to go there and I should call them. I didn't fly 7000 miles to be told to give them a call. It's not a matter of principal, it's a matter of attitude.
Another thing was that when I spoke to the students, I met four new PPL (60 day) guys and it bothered me that none of them really checked (physically, not via internet) any other school before they decided on ATP.
One plus: the free provided housing is quite nice.
Overall, if I compare the two schools which give a lot of multi time for cheap - I would prefer to go to Ari-Ben and learn at my own pace and know the material better than rush through it, even if it takes me a little longer. I know how to push myself, and I don't think it will take me more than a few month more if I invest my time. So I ruled out ATP.
Mazzei:
My last school, and one which is not talked about much in JC.
It has what may be described as a different approach to things than most schools. No glass cockpit stuff, no training for the airlines, just regular flying.
I spent 2 days with the school, spoke to a few people, and back seated a flight.
I really liked the schools attitude, the syllabus seemed very comprehensive and very well prepared. instead of formal ground school it combines self study and 1 on 1 tutoring.
This school seemed very serious but without the big offices of schools like FSA,DCA and Pan-Am.
Some points - The housing was quite nice and for 250 a month you can get a private bedroom in a two bedroom apartment.
This school uses PA38 Tomahawks as the basic trainer. (Yes, I have read all the stuff about the PA38) and I would have liked to take a flight lesson in one to be able to compare it to the 152 but unfortunately (believe it or not) my rental car broke down on my way to the school the last day (Alamo) and by the time I got things sorted out it was too late, so no flight.
The one disadvantage of this school is you only get 50h multi at the end and this may pose a problem when you need to meet regional minimums.
Overall I really liked this school, probably more for personal taste reasons.
So now I have to make a decision - I have FSA, Ari-Ben and Mazzei left. After a long conversation with a relative of mine that has a COMM with about 800TT his point was to go where you get the most flying, as that is most important. He thought I should have no problem learning on my own and I will know just as much as from a fancy classroom both from a motivation aspect and that I have spent the past four years studying for a degree in EE and he believes I should be OK with this material. I decided that as nice as FSA may be I could do just as good with my other options which are half the cost, especially considering my potential income in the next few years. So I ruled out FSA.
The two options left are quite different and one has the advantage of 200h multi but with no FTD, while the other has the advantage of maybe a learning environment that I feel better with but has only 50h multi. I haven't made my final decision yet, and am trying to think of some questions I should ask the schools that could make my decision easier. Just a thought - go to Mazzei and if needed buy 100h multi for 7K later?
I think the biggest point I can emphasize from this experience is that there is no replacement to visiting schools. I could not have come to these decisions without visiting the schools, and if I would have made my decision based on information I have read on the internet (as helpful as it may be) and phone only, I would have probably come to the wrong decision.
I can also emphasize that everyone has a different personality and the school I feel is right for me is not always right for him.
This post is long, and I have much more to say about the schools so if you have any questions about a school just PM me.
Daniel.
I am posting this so that other people looking at flight schools can get the same help I did from JC, and I do not mean to start any arguments, this is just my own impressions and thinking process and they maybe different from others.
Anyway, I tried to look at different styles of schools and keep the financial matter out of the decision process for now and compare schools on quality basis only and try and find what fits me best, and only then worry about the money. I narrowed it down to 7 schools before my trip which were: Pan-Am, Ari-Ben, FSA, PEA, DCA (all in Florida) and Mazzei in CA.
Pan-Am:
This was the first school I visited so I didn't know what to expect, but I was quite impressed with what I saw. Due to Hurricane damage the place is being rebuilt and it looks like they will have quite a nice facility soon. The representative that met me was very nice and answered all my nagging questions, we toured all the offices, hanger, flight line, classrooms and housing. He also arranged for a 45 min intro flight (not a back seat) which was great, but it was difficult trying to ask the instructor questions about the school rather than enjoy the flight... I also spoke to most of the students I saw and they all seemed quite happy with the school and their choice (which turned out to be the case in all the schools - so maybe I didn't ask the right people?).
The program seemed very serious and structured, with a good amount of multi time (~110h), and I have little doubt it will be a good education. The housing seemed a bit expensive for what you get - 2 per room, 4 rooms per apartment for 495 a month is a bit expensive, and the housing looked a bit run-down.
The planes (mostly pipers) seemed to be in good shape, all with G430 and the plane to student ratio was very good. One issue I had with the G430 - I was told by the instructor that since the plane has the GPS, it has to be on and used during the flight. Although I know I will also learn how to fly with no GPS, my philosophy says I rather learn to fly with no GPS and then learn how to use it rather than learn with a GPS and then learn how to deal with it failing... I feel you become less dependant on GPS in my approach (but then, I'm not a pilot). Pipers do seem more comfortable than Cessnas though.
I was told the management had been changed a few months ago, which is both good and bad - things were not going to good here before and so might improve, but then you never know with new management...
The ACE part of the program seems nice but the cost (~8K) is a lot for something I'm not sure I really need.
I did feel the everyone there was quite honest with me and did not try to sell me loads of disinformation, which is the impression I got from the forum.
Overall I had a good impression from Pan-Am.
Ari-Ben:
Just across the street from Pan-Am, this school is on the opposite side of the scale - very laid back, do it at your own pace kind of school. Probably more like an FBO, and so is the price.
Much more self study, they have some classes (I think for PPL and CFI) but mostly it's up to you to learn the stuff, the instructors are there if you have any questions. I have nothing against this approach, it's just different from the classroom style but it could also work better for some people. The big advantage of this school is the multi time - 200h which is a big advantage when it comes to meeting the minimums of the regionals, and you may be a better pilot by spending so much time learning in a more complex aircraft rather than a single, fixed gear and prop plane. One advice I got was that what makes a good pilot is experience, not ground school, and this school sure gives you that. On the other hand, they do not use any simulators, which I see as a disadvantage because I think some things can be taught better in an FTD, while in a real aircraft you can not exceed certain limitations you can in the FTD and therefore be more prepared for that when it happens in real life.
The planes were a bit old, but then if they are maintained correctly it should be OK and it is one of the reasons for the low cost.
The housing was quite nice - only 1 per room, 3 rooms per house, first three months for free, then 500 a month.
Overall, a much smaller school than the previous one, but I don't think that's what makes the difference.
FSA:
This school gives a very strong impression through it's size - it's like walking into a small university. Everyone and everything seemed very professional and very strict. They have all the extra stuff that will make you a better pilot. Sophisticated classrooms and tons of planes. I don't think there is any need to go into detail so I will get to the point - I liked the internship option you get if you get hired as an instructor - that could be very helpful if regional job opportunities get scarce. The 4 hours in the Zlin are nice and probably useful. The housing seemed OK and the price is around 500 a month.
Overall you will certainly get excellent training and if comparable to a similar school - Pan-Am, I would choose FSA because I think at a similar price you get better value for your money and an excellent education.
So I ruled out Pan-Am.
PEA:
Another style of school. The tour was OK but I just didn't feel comfortable with this school for my own reasons.
Some points - they have a new program where the FAA approved them to do the COMM with only 160h. Me being a skeptical person, wasn't sure if to believe them, but I have heard the same thing from another school so it probably is true, however, you get less hours 160 (141) compared to 190 (141) and yet the price is the same. The way I think it is done is by skipping the time building section of the course which means you only get 10h solo for PPL and 2h more for COMM. Basically this means that almost all of your flying is with an instructor and almost no hours solo. I believe solo hours are very important for experience and confidence building because that is where no one is there to catch you if you make a mistake and I think I'd rather have them.
Anyway, I ruled out PEA.
DCA:
Again a very big and impressive school, similar to FSA and Pan-Am so I won't elaborate.
Here are a number of points - there is a 4 month waiting list to instruct at the moment, and after that you may get to instruct ground school for two months. They also have the 160h COMM program which I didn't like (see PEA).
I think the school is fine and some people may like it better than me but I would prefer to go to FSA for a similar price. So DCA is ruled out.
ATP:
My last school in Florida. My visit was not too great, and I got the feeling that the person giving me the tour was doing me a favor by showing me around. Probably comparable to Ari-Ben in style.
The main issue was the speed 60+90 days from start to finish. First let me say, I have no doubt that ATP will deliver what they say - I think they can get me through the program that fast, so that is not the issue. What I question is how the learning is done. You have to pass the PPL written 7 days after getting there, and I have no previous knowledge. I was told this is done mainly by learning from the Gleim books. When I asked if I will really know all the material, I was told I just needed to know enough to pass the written, and that I will really learn the stuff later. I just don't like this kind of approach where it's up to you to fill in the gaps. I would rather take some more time and do things the right way.
One more thing that bothered me - I had a list of questions for the school, ones that I wanted to get a reply to in person. When I asked them some difficult questions I was told I should ask the main office (two different places). When I asked for directions how to get there I was told I am not allowed to go there and I should call them. I didn't fly 7000 miles to be told to give them a call. It's not a matter of principal, it's a matter of attitude.
Another thing was that when I spoke to the students, I met four new PPL (60 day) guys and it bothered me that none of them really checked (physically, not via internet) any other school before they decided on ATP.
One plus: the free provided housing is quite nice.
Overall, if I compare the two schools which give a lot of multi time for cheap - I would prefer to go to Ari-Ben and learn at my own pace and know the material better than rush through it, even if it takes me a little longer. I know how to push myself, and I don't think it will take me more than a few month more if I invest my time. So I ruled out ATP.
Mazzei:
My last school, and one which is not talked about much in JC.
It has what may be described as a different approach to things than most schools. No glass cockpit stuff, no training for the airlines, just regular flying.
I spent 2 days with the school, spoke to a few people, and back seated a flight.
I really liked the schools attitude, the syllabus seemed very comprehensive and very well prepared. instead of formal ground school it combines self study and 1 on 1 tutoring.
This school seemed very serious but without the big offices of schools like FSA,DCA and Pan-Am.
Some points - The housing was quite nice and for 250 a month you can get a private bedroom in a two bedroom apartment.
This school uses PA38 Tomahawks as the basic trainer. (Yes, I have read all the stuff about the PA38) and I would have liked to take a flight lesson in one to be able to compare it to the 152 but unfortunately (believe it or not) my rental car broke down on my way to the school the last day (Alamo) and by the time I got things sorted out it was too late, so no flight.
The one disadvantage of this school is you only get 50h multi at the end and this may pose a problem when you need to meet regional minimums.
Overall I really liked this school, probably more for personal taste reasons.
So now I have to make a decision - I have FSA, Ari-Ben and Mazzei left. After a long conversation with a relative of mine that has a COMM with about 800TT his point was to go where you get the most flying, as that is most important. He thought I should have no problem learning on my own and I will know just as much as from a fancy classroom both from a motivation aspect and that I have spent the past four years studying for a degree in EE and he believes I should be OK with this material. I decided that as nice as FSA may be I could do just as good with my other options which are half the cost, especially considering my potential income in the next few years. So I ruled out FSA.
The two options left are quite different and one has the advantage of 200h multi but with no FTD, while the other has the advantage of maybe a learning environment that I feel better with but has only 50h multi. I haven't made my final decision yet, and am trying to think of some questions I should ask the schools that could make my decision easier. Just a thought - go to Mazzei and if needed buy 100h multi for 7K later?
I think the biggest point I can emphasize from this experience is that there is no replacement to visiting schools. I could not have come to these decisions without visiting the schools, and if I would have made my decision based on information I have read on the internet (as helpful as it may be) and phone only, I would have probably come to the wrong decision.
I can also emphasize that everyone has a different personality and the school I feel is right for me is not always right for him.
This post is long, and I have much more to say about the schools so if you have any questions about a school just PM me.
Daniel.
