my first inflight emergency

RABIRZA69

RABIRZA69

Penalty vectorer
well folks i had my first inflight emergency today with a plane that has been riddled with problems over the past week. 5 days ago my cfi was in the trusty cessna with another student when after takeoff at about 300' agl the enginge quit lucky enough he had enough time to turn to the runway that is perpindicular to the active and put it down inspite of a strong tailwind.kuydos to him. turns out one of the cylinders just blew up ..after being fixed and the required 100 hr inspection i took the beast up with the same cfi and what do you know on short final about 200 agl the engine goes silent. touched down no problem just a little difficult to taxi w/o an engine,. all in all i think it was a great learning experience in that situation there is no checklist or procedure that anyone can possibly follow except stay composed and grease it in.
 
Congratulations on keeping a level head and just flying the airplane. Seems like you kept the right attitude, and made a safe landing.
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I had a similar situation in one of our 172's in Prescott. Lost my engine on takeoff from 21R, dove to 21L, and in the process ran the emergency flow.Once the Aux pump was turned on, the engine came back to life. I was pretty shaken up after the fact, but all worked out well.
Take care, and safe flying to you.
 
Well if the engine of an airplane ever dies in the air, and you make it back with the airplane in one piece, congrats you did the right thing!

What's the problem with this airplane though? That was its second engine failure? Any signs on run-up or anything?
 
on runup everything went 100% mags alternator. everything that should look good looked good. i think the problem was that the idle was set to low i noticed after we restarted the engine it was only idling at about 300rpm while offhand i dont know what it should be, i know that this is low. we were coming in high on final doing a slip to lose some altitude and we idled back pretty early, while this is no reason for the engine to stall i think because we had the engine idling for so long it just died.. during runup the idle cutoff check we only let it idle for about 5-10 seconds before we proceed with the checklist.
as far as it having a lot of problems yeah your right.... its got 5500 tt and is a 98 172r... no reason for it to be giving so much engine trouble... and it just came out of its 100 hr!
 
It dosn't quite compare to an engine failure but the other evening I experienced my first comm failure. We were in the pattern when it happened, we could hear the tower but could tell both PTT switches were intermittent. And after the tower tried to clear us for the option seveal times with no acknowledgement they finally said "74E if you can hear me make a full stop and taxi to parking" which we did. My CFI was actually hoping to be able to get in one more call to request straight out so we could just squawk 7600 and take it home (only 10 min flight away), but since we landed we could not take off from class D with inop radios. Another plane from our school just happened to also be in the pattern and overhearing what happened, made a full stop to give us a ride back. Fortunately they were down to half their uslable fuel so we were able to fit all 4 of us into a 172 and were just barely under max weight.
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Turned out okay though.
 
my inexperience might show here... but why not squawk 7600 and depart the pattern and head home? can you do that it in a situation like that?
 
I have always wanted to land on the highway..of course with no serious injuries or anything to that degree.
 
Oh no, sorry to have confused ya a bit. No I wasn't there. I don't fly too frequently. It's only once in a while, and if so, it's with a friend or two.
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No I was just wondering whether it was at Farmingdale.
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Who are you training with, BTW?
 
If I lost comms on downwind in the pattern at a controlled airport first I would immediatly start looking for lights from the tower. Next I would troubleshoot, squelch knob, volume knob, ensure headsets are adequately plugged in, check audio selector switches, headset volume, try the speaker, etc etc. Then I would squawk 7600. If I saw a green light I would fly a normal pattern and land. If I saw a red light I would extend my downwind until I saw a green light. If I saw a flashing red or alternating red green, I would depart the terminal area and find an uncontrolled airport and land, squawking 7600 until departing the Class C, D, or E airspace, then squawking 1200 assuming vfr conditions. You absolutely do not want to land at a controlled airport without a clearance to do so, either via light gun signals or a radio transmission. Lesson learned the hard way.

I always try to get my clearance to land before turning base....I don't like being in a situation on short final where I've lost comms, don't have my clearance to land yet, and am forced to completely mess with the flow of traffic by doing a missed approach and departing the area without talking to a controller.
 
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my inexperience might show here... but why not squawk 7600 and depart the pattern and head home? can you do that it in a situation like that?

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Tower flat out told us to land, we'd have had to pretend we didn't hear them, then we might get questioned about why we squawked 7600 and flew away from the airport. What we were hoping to do is keep at least a little 2-way communication long enough to get out of the airspace, then squawk 7600 and go home to our class C airport (with radar). When controllers see 7600 on their scopes they try to deturmine a path and figure out which airport the aircraft is going to in order to clear the area of traffic. They'd be highly confused as to why we'd squawk 7600 on final at one airport and go to another.

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I would depart the terminal area and find an uncontrolled airport and land, squawking 7600 until departing the Class C, D, or E airspace, then squawking 1200 assuming vfr conditions.


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I have to disagree there. Sure an uncontrolled field dosn't require two-way communication, but just because its legal dosn't mean its safe. If you are blind, why put a blindfold on big brother too? If you head for an airport with radar, class C for instance, you'd get all trafic in the area vectored out of your way. ATC can see you and is talking to everyone else in the area, and when you are an aircraft in distress you get the right of way over all other trafic. You may create an inconvience for some people, but you are not breaking any law and are ensuring traffic avoidance. You won't get in trouble for busting airspace if you've got an emergency situation, and follow the proper procedures in the FARs.

Also if it is more practical to go to the uncontrolled field, why squawk VRF? If you keep 7600 then at least anyone in the area that ATC is talking to they will get them out of your way. Granted they won't be talking to anyone in the class G, but the'd at least give a heads up to anyone they know is going to that airport at that time.
 
>>about 200 agl the engine goes silent. touched down no problem <<

Very well done. This is why my old instructor used to whack me with his stick if I got low enough on final to need power to make the runway.
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I definitely would not go to another towered airport if I knew I wasn't going to have comms. The reason I would squawk 1200 once departing class B/C/D is because that code is setting off alarms for ATC, and once I'm in an area that does not require radio comms, I do not want to create any more problems for them. They will still have me on radar as a VFR target (assuming an electrical failure wasn't the source of the lost comss) and can vector traffic around me just as well as they could with a 7600 squawk. Basically, you want to create as little trouble for ATC as possible without compromising safety; landing at a quiet uncontrolled field without radios is done routinely, legally and can be done safely.

ATC is not going to be able to help the other aircraft in the pattern at the uncontrolled airport you to land at since they're on CTAF, not approach/center. Even so, pilots at all class E/G airport should be vigilant for NORDO aircraft and rely on visual scanning for collision avoidance, not radio calls.

Like any lost comms scenario, this one is a judgement call, and there might be times where I would continue squawking 7600, for instance if it was very marginal VFR and the airport I was heading to had IFR approaches going on. This is why the FAA doesn't try to come up with hard-fast regulations for every conceivable lost comm scenario. The pilot has some leeway.
 
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Basically, you want to create as little trouble for ATC as possible without compromising safety; landing at a quiet uncontrolled field without radios is done routinely, legally and can be done safely.


ATC is not going to be able to help the other aircraft in the pattern at the uncontrolled airport you to land at since they're on CTAF, not approach/center. Even so, pilots at all class E/G airport should be vigilant for NORDO aircraft and rely on visual scanning for collision avoidance, not radio calls.


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This is exactly why I'd go for the class C. I agree that radio communiaction alone should not be relied on for collision avoidance, even at a towered airport, but in my opinion it is a valuable resource that must be utalized. Although it is legal to land at an uncontrolled airport without radio communication I think it would be crazy to do so. Its bad enough going to one with radio communication knowing that there could be aircraft there without radios. At a class C, all trafic within roughly a 10 mile radius will be vectored around you. Class D is also good but that airport may not have radar and won't be able to give vectors to other traffic, only advisories. Class E/G you're on your own, but if you are squawking 7600 anyone with flight following will get an advisory upon termination that there is an aircraft with lost comms in the area. I will give you that class B is probably a bit of a streach, but don't ever consider yourself an inconvenience to ATC when you are in distress. They are there to help you, not the other way around.
 
You shouldn't be in distress if you go NORDO in class E/G airspace. No emeregency, no distress, radio is not required for that airspace. I don't think it's crazy at all to takeoff and land at a quiet, secluded uncontrolled airport NORDO. Sure, don't go into a place where there are 5 flight schools and 12 planes in the pattern at any given time without at least a handheld, but there are plenty of small airports where ops w/o a radio are safe. Going into class C NORDO under VFR (without establishing communications with ATC), knowing you were NORDO beforehand would probably earn a violation.

Good discussion here, I enjoy exploring hypotheticals such as this. Props to you and your CFI for getting it on the ground safely. Ever find out what was wrong with the airplane?
 
Haven't heard anything yet but both PTT switches were intermittent just a few moments before we totally lost comms. I'll keep you updated if I hear anything new.

The situation were were hoping for (request straight out so we could squawk 76 and go home) actually happened to my CFI about a year ago. He was in E airspace when it happend. What he did was flew away from the terminal area (near an uncontrolled field) before squawking 76 so that ATC could deturmine his path. Once he got back home the tower was ready for him with the light gun, got a steady green and was able to taxi right up to our maintainence hangar without incident. He never got a citation, and was never even contacted about the incident. I'd be very surprised if someone were to get a citation for entering charlie with lost comms, assuming the proper procedures are followed. No laws would have been broken, and safety would not have been compromised.

Your way works too though. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
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I'd be very surprised if someone were to get a citation for entering charlie with lost comms, assuming the proper procedures are followed. No laws would have been broken, and safety would not have been compromised.

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I would strongly recommend against entering Class C with no comms, unless you were already in radio contact with them beforehand. If you were already in radio contact prior to entry, and they know you're coming- fine. Squawk 7600 and watch for the lights. You certainly could (and probably would) receive a violation of 91.130 if you just decide to squawk 7600 and fly into a Class C airport without somehow coordinating it prior to entering.

Having no radio comms doesn't mean you're in distress.

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Your way works too though. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

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Agree to disagree? No offense, but you're a student pilot and he's a CFI. I wouldn't be so quick to disagree- thats quite stubborn and closed-minded.
 
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Your way works too though. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

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Agree to disagree? No offense, but you're a student pilot and he's a CFI. I wouldn't be so quick to disagree- thats quite stubborn and closed-minded.

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Well the insights I present come from my CFI who's job it was to give me those insights. He by the way was the one who did have a comm failure, entered class C with no comms squawking 76, and recieved no violation. But I suppose because Alchemy knows more than me he must be better to teach me than my CFI who actually experienced this situation.

BTW no offense taken, sorry if I sound heated, its all good
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