LatitudeDancer
Well-Known Member
Yea, except I've had it happen in fuel injected planes...
My C172 engine "hiccupped" - why?
- Thread starter Texguy
- Start date
LatitudeDancer
Well-Known Member
I hated the instructors from pilot mills I've flown with that go full rich ("standardization" I'm sure)...engines don't like that most of the time.
TXaviator
Well-Known Member
EXACTLY.
this was also the SOP at UND... AND ITS JUST NOT CORRECT.
slamming in the mixture when you start down is a) waste of fuel and b) not a correct mixture for the engine. welcome to plug fouling land!!
keep an eye on the EGT and richen the mixture a little at a time on the way down when you notice/feel it getting too lean/hot.
piloting for dummies = dummy pilots.
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
I like to leave it way lean as I come down...so when I put the mixture forward entering the pattern it gains a couple hundred RPM.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Well I believe the reason they do that during training is two fold.
One: reality inside a teaching cockpit is sometimes things get forgotten and base turn is a bad time to realize the engine is sputtering because of mixture. Pay for the extra $.60 of gas and pay someone $25 an hour (15 min. of work) to pull out 4 plugs and regap them when the mag check doesn't go well and you can't clean them off and lean them.
Two: Don't put the mixture in on a large engine sometime. Plenty of them laying 1-2 miles short of the runway from fuel starvation when there are still tens of gallons in the wings. Maybe I just flew around Vikings, Bonanzas, and Navajo's too much.
LatitudeDancer
Well-Known Member
Or fly the plane how it's supposed to...teach it the correct way the 1st time around, one more step shouldn't make any SP, etc poop the bed. Maybe they'll obtain some kind of "light bulb" on the application level of how the engine works.
Ps. another reason not to do it, building on the whole it fouls things up reason...I've had a friend crash a plane during a power off 180 and I've had an engine quit during the first 360 of a steep spiral at 6,000'. Part of "full rich?" I don't know, but might as well eliminate it as a probable cause.
Ps. another reason not to do it, building on the whole it fouls things up reason...I've had a friend crash a plane during a power off 180 and I've had an engine quit during the first 360 of a steep spiral at 6,000'. Part of "full rich?" I don't know, but might as well eliminate it as a probable cause.
jrh
Well-Known Member
Ok, I'll offer a dissenting opinion...
First, I don't disagree with anyone who adjusts the mixture to less than full rich during descent. That's usually how I personally fly.
However, this should not be a big issue one way or the other. If an engine is properly tuned and maintained, going full rich in a descent should not be a problem to the point of fouling plugs, and definitely shouldn't be a problem to the point of engine sputtering.
I've flown planes that were very touchy when it came to fouling plugs and in almost all the cases they had other issues like an improperly set idle mixture control. I've never had problems with the planes that undergo regular maintenance at reputable shops. In my C-140 I run full rich almost all the time and never have a problem. In the C-172S aircraft at the flight school we run full rich on most training flights and never have a problem. And the profile for flying a C-182 jump plane? Full rich as we come across the drop zone at 11,500 MSL and never had a bit of trouble during descent.
Also, remember what the aircraft POH says. Most newer POHs call for "Mixture -- Adjust" in the descent checklist, but on many of the older aircraft it will say "Mixture -- Rich" on the descent or before landing checklist.
I'm the first to say pilots shouldn't check their brain on the ground and become robots in the air, but from a training standpoint, it's important to follow POH procedures. That's why most of the big name pilot mills follow this procedure.
Just a few points to consider.
First, I don't disagree with anyone who adjusts the mixture to less than full rich during descent. That's usually how I personally fly.
However, this should not be a big issue one way or the other. If an engine is properly tuned and maintained, going full rich in a descent should not be a problem to the point of fouling plugs, and definitely shouldn't be a problem to the point of engine sputtering.
I've flown planes that were very touchy when it came to fouling plugs and in almost all the cases they had other issues like an improperly set idle mixture control. I've never had problems with the planes that undergo regular maintenance at reputable shops. In my C-140 I run full rich almost all the time and never have a problem. In the C-172S aircraft at the flight school we run full rich on most training flights and never have a problem. And the profile for flying a C-182 jump plane? Full rich as we come across the drop zone at 11,500 MSL and never had a bit of trouble during descent.
Also, remember what the aircraft POH says. Most newer POHs call for "Mixture -- Adjust" in the descent checklist, but on many of the older aircraft it will say "Mixture -- Rich" on the descent or before landing checklist.
I'm the first to say pilots shouldn't check their brain on the ground and become robots in the air, but from a training standpoint, it's important to follow POH procedures. That's why most of the big name pilot mills follow this procedure.
Just a few points to consider.
Bumblebee
Commodore
Every thousand feet or two, a couple of turns or a slight push until the pattern, then adjusted to max power based on Pressure Altitude for elevation and temperature. If you took off at sea level at 65 degrees and are landing at 4500' and 90 degrees, then the mixture will be leaner at landing. I would mix just slightly rich in the pattern so that you have a best power mixture for a possible go around. That is the main reason for the richer mixture on the landing checklist.
If you just do things the same way every time, you are not present in the moment. Being a good and safe pilot means being present in every moment, and making your decisions and reactions based on the environment you are PRESENTLY in.
If you just do things the same way every time, you are not present in the moment. Being a good and safe pilot means being present in every moment, and making your decisions and reactions based on the environment you are PRESENTLY in.
LatitudeDancer
Well-Known Member
I would go with that almost 100%.
On another note, the Cessna and Diamond products I've flow call for <link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CThomas%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--> “ADJUST for smooth operation” or “adjust as required for the altitude, operate slowly," not full rich (unless idle on the Cessnas). If i went full rich on my A36 I climb and cruise at LOP in a descent, I know for a fact the engine would quit often, and would always fowl plugs, idle adjustment aside, way too soon (every 20 hours instead of every 200 (which i blame on ROP annual maneuvers)).
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
Can you explain what you mean by that? I'm not getting it.
