multiengine.net

wheelsup said:
You sound like a stage check instructor :).

"What if you were flying all alone, at night, and the weather suddenly went from VFR to 0-0, which was totally unforecasted, and you didn't have any IFR charts with you and your flashlight batteries died and your headset broke and your radios are only picking up static? Do you feel lucky?".

Unfortunately, life is full of "what if's?". The same flight school he would be instructing at could lose 80% of their fleet in a hurricane, like mine did.

CFi'ing is probably the safest way of "time building" that we do. But in the long run, you're working toward an end goal of XXX hours to be hired by XXX company. As with anything in life, there are risks invovled...but I'm not really sure thats the issue here, or maybe it is? I dunno.

Just like investing, there are ways to make more money or get to your goal faster. They're just riskier.

~wheelsup
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The number one sign of a good pilot is "always having an out."

Sure life is full of what ifs, but that doesn't mean you go through life with a laisie faire attitude. It behooves anyone, especially pilots, to always have a plan b, plan c and plan d.

A low time pilot with a few hours in a jet is about as marketable as a square tire.

Just an interesting note, everyone in my class and 98% of the pilots at my current employer were active CFIs. Not trying to prove that CFI'ing is the only way to do things but those kind of numbers say something.

And another note ... CFIs is far more than time building. You're learning skills that will serve for a very long time. I don't believe everyone should instruct but I don't think it's a bad idea if everyone tried it.
 
pilot602,

I agree with everything you say, 10000%. I'm not trying to argue that CFI'ing is a bad way to go, or is a waste of time, or any of that. For some reason I got peeved today when people assume CFI'ing is the ONLY way to go, and if you don't do it you're no paying your dues/you're a PFT'er. I'm against PFT/PFJ/P-whatever very much, but there are multiple ways to skin a cat without going that route, besides CFI'ing, if your timing is good and you're looking in the right places.

I never considered anything BUT CFI'ing because that was the 'assumed' thing to do at my school. I wish I had known to look for other options, not because I don't/didn't like instructing, but because I really enjoy flying itself and as a CFI I hardly got to fly - I was always worried about the students and their progress, I couldn't ever relax :).


~wheelsup
 
For the record, I don't think I said, "You must be a CFI!!".

I just think you outta get paid for your flying . . .
 
Kristie said:
one question i haven't heard anybody ask yet is:

What do YOU think??? do you think it's PFT? :)
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I cant say whether it is or not because I dont know enough about the company. If youre with another pilot who is being paid by the company but you get to log it pic I would say its no different than any other time building because youre not taking someone elses paying job. I highly doubt they would pay to have 2 pilots for part 91 in a seminole (i think thats the plane they use). One the other hand, if you are the only one in the plane who is paying to fly and do work for the company which they are also receiving revenue for I think its PFT. So it could go either way based on what they are doing.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Don't pay to go to work.
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Doug, I'm soooo confused.

I flew with a guy today in his Saratoga. After I finished flying, one of my friends out at the airport looked at me with a straight face and said, "Dude, I can't believe he pays you to fly that with him. I'd do it for free just to log some time in that thing!!!!":confused:
 
mtsu_av8er said:
I flew with a guy today in his Saratoga. After I finished flying, one of my friends out at the airport looked at me with a straight face and said, "Dude, I can't believe he pays you to fly that with him. I'd do it for free just to log some time in that thing!!!!":confused:
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What was your reply to them?
 
I gave him one of my canned answers. Simply told him that was why I could afford to go have a drink or eat dinner when I wanted to, and he's complaining that it's soooo horrible that flight instructors can't afford to live . . .
 
Doug Taylor said:
Don't pay to go to work.
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Just out of curiosity, do you consider training (ie indoc / sim) to be 'work'. I do, and yet no one went nuts about Skywest not paying for training Pre-Sept. 2005, or Mesa not paying you until you start sim. I'm sure there are others too.

With this particular company (multiengine.net company) you are there as a 2nd pilot logging time as you fly on the 91 legs, as I understand it - but that was just derived from the flightinfo post. There is another, company paid, pilot in the front. I have no idea if they are logging time or not, however. If they are, it's not valid time for sure.

I refused to buy any multi time after getting my MEI. I needed 18 hours to break 100 and yet I signed on for a 12-month long contract as a CFI to get the time. Stubborn? No, just CHEAP!

As a side not, a lot of guys from my former CFI job bought/split time and ended up at places such as American Eagle, who traditionally are very log-book-reviewing intensive. I don't view time building as an evil, just stupid, unless you have the $$ to burn :).

~wheelsup

Edit: I thought I've heard of a timebuilding program at Ameriflight. After doing some research, I found it in a thread here. It's funny how people will jump down the throat of some no-name company and consider this type of program PFT instead of time building, but if a place like Ameriflight does it it's ok, and is not considered PFT, but just 'timebuilding'. How does that work?
 
wheelsup said:
Edit: I thought I've heard of a timebuilding program at Ameriflight. After doing some research, I found it in a thread here. It's funny how people will jump down the throat of some no-name company and consider this type of program PFT instead of time building, but if a place like Ameriflight does it it's ok, and is not considered PFT, but just 'timebuilding'. How does that work?
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I'd like to see the thread. I doubt everyone on here viewed it as legit since I know I wouldn't. PFT is not hard to figure out. If you are a required crew member, as a SIC on an Ameriflight Metroliner would be, and you are paying the company to act and log time as SIC then it is PFT or more specifically PFJ. As far as the opportunity the original thread is about, I'm not sure but it does sound fishy on many different levels. I'd find another way to get the time, one that leaves little to be questioned or misinterpreted. The less questions you have to answer in an interview down the road the better!
 
Cav said:
I'd find another way to get the time, one that leaves little to be questioned or misinterpreted. The less questions you have to answer in an interview down the road the better!
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You're right I've gotten way off topic going off on my rant, which I don't even know what was about anymore lol. I suppose the whole timebuilding/pft thing is like cars - some people get more mileage out of them than others :). I didn't do it, except for a few flights with my parents in a Seneca, that was the extent of the multi time I bought besides training. If people would stop trying to find a shortcut on their way up the ladder we'd all be better off!

FYI, here is the thread.
http://forums.jetcareers.com/showthread.php?t=14979&page=2&highlight=ameriflight

It was buried deep in the DCA Forum.

~wheelsup
 
"If you are a required crew member, as a SIC on an Ameriflight Metroliner would be"

Amflight has single pilot approval for their Metro's. Right seaters are not required crewmembers and can be bumped for freight. Capts get paid $5/hour, or so, more if they have a timebuilder on board. This sort of timebuilding is suspect and challenged by some airlines, but it's not PFT or PFJ.
 
I'm part of the 'let's keep it simple' crowd.

If you're flying a crop duster spraying fields and the company that owns the cropduster is getting paid for your services, but in turn you're paying for the priviledge of flying it to build flight time, you're paying to go to work.

I have a hard time figuring out what a pilot with a CPL would want to pay someone to fly when they've trained to be able to fly for compensation or hire.
 
Doug Taylor said:
I'm part of the 'let's keep it simple'.

If you're flying a crop duster spraying fields and the company that owns the cropduster is getting paid for your services, but in turn you're paying for the priviledge of flying it to build flight time, you're paying to go to work.

Indoc, schmindock! ;)
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Yep, taking $$ outta someone elses pocket that should be paid to occupy the seat. I agree. This situation doesn't pertain to the company depicted @ multiengine.net - as far as I can tell. Who knows.

I have a hard time figuring out what a pilot with a CPL would want to pay someone to fly when they've trained to be able to fly for compensation or hire.
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Unfortunately, it is tough finding a paying gig with 250 hours TT (heck I had 190 TT when I got my commercial SEL) as someone in the CFI forum has posted about. If you can be flexible, it can be done, however. I moved 6 times in 3 years for aviation, and hopefully I won't have to move anytime soon at this job...

Either buy it, instruct it, or fly it doing cargo, but you've gotta have it. How's that saying go? Fly what you can, log what you need :) (j/k folks).

~wheelsup
 
DE727UPS said:
"If you are a required crew member, as a SIC on an Ameriflight Metroliner would be"

Amflight has single pilot approval for their Metro's. Right seaters are not required crewmembers and can be bumped for freight. Capts get paid $5/hour, or so, more if they have a timebuilder on board. This sort of timebuilding is suspect and challenged by some airlines, but it's not PFT or PFJ.
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HA, that's kind of funny. I wonder if they still get your money if you stay and the boxes go! I definitely think it's shady. Thanks for the clarification DE, I was unaware they had a single pilot cert. Funny side note, there was a guy in my initial class at XJT who I guess did this program or something like it in a Metro. He used to tell us stories starting with "when I flew for FedEX (kind of like if I told someone I fly for Continental!)" or others that started with "this one time at Riddle." He was a real piece of work. Couldn't stand the guy.
 
I hate to ask this so late into the discussion, but what does "PFJ" and "PFT" mean?

This is my first post, so please don't flame my ignorance!

Taking my initial CFI at the FSDO in two weeks so please show mercy,
James
 
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