More disgusting 3407 cartoons

[Seggy]

Oh, snap!

You sound like Paris Hilton there........

 

[derg]

You sound like Paris Hilton there........

I'm sorry man, I couldn't hear you over your radio blasting the soundtrack from "A Chorus Line", do you mind turning it down and saying it again.... hon.... "

 

[Seggy]

When your comeback involve a reference to a musical, they are weak...

 

[derg]

When your comeback involve a reference to a musical, they are weak...

Your response was weak, like a gurlyman.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Doubt it. Tell that to the many, many military pilots of single pilot jets who did just fine transitioning to a crew environment.

I am amazed that ASA would insult its new pilots by making such a statement in its "Welcome" letter. But, I'll take your word for it. Perhaps low timers have an easier time completing training because they're accustomed to being a part of that training pipeline (whether giving or receiving). They are a sponge and would easily adapt to learning just another set of standard callouts and procedures.

Nonetheless, you're going to have a hard time convincing me that a 300 or 400 hour CFI is better prepared to act as an integral part of the cockpit crew than a 1500+ hour freight pilot who has real world experience flying within the IFR system, to busy airports, at night, and in all kinds of weather.

I'm sorry if it appears as though i'm attacking the path that led you to your seat... I'm not. As a Captain my comfort level is much higher with a newbie who only has to become accustomed to the airplane and not potentially their first exposure to "actual" IFR. They're at home flying approaches to minimums and operating seamlessly in IFR.

ASA's a great company to work for but they're the same guys who (when they were still hiring) said I needed to get a RJ course or more glass cockpit time when I came to them with 1000/400ME while everyone with a RJ course got hired with like 300TT Granted this was towards the end of their hiring but at least 3 or 4 classes went through after that.

My interview at Mesa was 'Take this ATP-written, brief this approach, when can you start?'

 

[KLB]

The MD80 is certainly not a tough airplane to fly. This guy may have had other issues but the MD80 being tough to fly could not possibly have been one of them.

Zap,

Flew with guys from/of every ilk and stripe. The single seat guys had no more trouble than guys from multi-crew airplanes (Part 135 guys were no worse/no better than anyone else).

I'll give you the secret to success but don't tell anyone: "Attitude is not just one factor; it's the ONLY factor.

My favorite guys to fly with ? The late 40s, early-to-mid 50s. Grown ups...nothing left to prove...did their homework...been there/done that...glad to be where they were now...came to work to make a contribution/play by the rules...no John Wayne...pros.

I think that his major issues were:

1. He flew the 1900 for years. Even though it was single pilot it still was a 1900. He would done much better in training if he would have been flying the metro. I'm bias though.

2. He flew the same 45 minute leg run to the same 2 airports for the majority his time in the 1900. We're talking about years of doing the same thing over and over again.

3. He was an older gentleman. He was maybe 15 years before forced retirement.

4. I hear the company that he was training at has weak training program compared to the company that I currently work at. This is a big suprise to me being that it's 121 compared to a 135 freight company.

Even with that, I know of 4 former pilots from my employer who were also in training at that compan and they all successfully got through the training with relative ease.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Colgan has a pretty good training program. I know one of (the?) APD that was on the 1900 (now on the Q??), I think he was an APD anyway.

He said the only downside was that Colgan would sign someone off who they knew or thought wasn't prepared for the check flight, rather than holding them back on a stage to repeat until they got it correct. This is hear say though, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[EDUC8-or]

Colgan has a pretty good training program. I know one of (the?) APD that was on the 1900 (now on the Q??), I think he was an APD anyway.

He said the only downside was that Colgan would sign someone off who they knew or thought wasn't prepared for the check flight, rather than holding them back on a stage to repeat until they got it correct. This is hear say though, so take it with a grain of salt.

A good training department with a good program wouldn't sign someone off who isn't prepared for a check flight, the feds would have a field day if they knew this.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

I think he probably meant applicants that were within the PTS, but barely. People who as an instructor you'd feel a little more comfortable if they had a few hours more but the student successfully completed, if barely, the module.

 

[bafanguy]

Alright, you got me.... Shine your shoes or something? Polish the hat brass?!

Nope, nothing of the sort. You mentioned perspective...so I mentioned perspective...thought it was germane...

Truth is, lots of MD80 time when other options are available is likely the mark of a hardcore underachiever....juuuust kidding....

 

[jtrain609]

I think that Part 135 cargo flying is an excellent way to build that kind of experience. You get to fly in all the nasty weather in airplanes that were built before you were born. Usually climbing above the weather isn't an option, and you probably don't have weather radar either. Add to that that you are most likely flying single pilot and the autopilot is that thing with the big INOP sticker on it. Plus you get to fly into the big airports keeping your airspeed in the yellow arc until short final so you don't get run over by the big Boeing or Airbus that's right behind you.

Ahh the joys of flying freight! If you can do that, it should make the transition to airline flying much easier.

Bingo.

On my first leg of OE at Express I thought things moved at about the same pace they did in the Chieftain, operating in and out of Burbank. There was nothing really surprising about the experience, the pace, the motions you go through on your departure, blah blah blah.

 

[jtrain609]

I think that his major issues were:

1. He flew the 1900 for years. Even though it was single pilot it still was a 1900. He would done much better in training if he would have been flying the metro. I'm bias though.

2. He flew the same 45 minute leg run to the same 2 airports for the majority his time in the 1900. We're talking about years of doing the same thing over and over again.

3. He was an older gentleman. He was maybe 15 years before forced retirement.

4. I hear the company that he was training at has weak training program compared to the company that I currently work at. This is a big suprise to me being that it's 121 compared to a 135 freight company.

Even with that, I know of 4 former pilots from my employer who were also in training at that compan and they all successfully got through the training with relative ease.

A few things.

1. The 1900, single pilot, is still going to be more work than many aircraft. It's an Amflightism to say, "Oh yeah, those 1900 pilots? Lame. That airplane is too easy to fly. I hate it when it's too easy to fly. The 99? Couldn't stand it, too easy. I need to fly the Metro, that'll put some hair on my balls. Couldn't be bothered to fly an easy airplane, I want to fly a 737 single pilot. What? You don't think I could do it?" I never heard anybody say at Express, "Man, the EMB-145? Too easy. I wish they'd buy some used Tupolovs from Aeroflot and not translate the manuals to English, then I'd get some hair on my balls!" Simply put most pilots LIKE that an airplane is a bit easier to fly than their other options...unless you work at Amflight

2. This is the one thing that KILLS Amflight pilots. It's not the operation of the aircraft, it's the complacency that develops after flying the same run for so long. You're in a much better position flying somewhere new every day.

3. Sure! No idea who it was, a bunch of guys went over there.

4. Of course while I'm biased too, Amflight's training department is top notch. I think they turn out some of the best pilots out there and they generally do well where ever it is that they go. I can tell you I had zero problems making the transition from the Chieftain to the EMB-145, and I think it's because of the great training I received, and I hope gave, at Amflight.

 

[KLB]

A few things.

1. The 1900, single pilot, is still going to be more work than many aircraft. It's an Amflightism to say, "Oh yeah, those 1900 pilots? Lame. That airplane is too easy to fly. I hate it when it's too easy to fly. The 99? Couldn't stand it, too easy. I need to fly the Metro, that'll put some hair on my balls. Couldn't be bothered to fly an easy airplane, I want to fly a 737 single pilot. What? You don't think I could do it?" I never heard anybody say at Express, "Man, the EMB-145? Too easy. I wish they'd buy some used Tupolovs from Aeroflot and not translate the manuals to English, then I'd get some hair on my balls!" Simply put most pilots LIKE that an airplane is a bit easier to fly than their other options...unless you work at Amflight

Well thats just me teasing the current and former 1900 pilots on the boards, such as Seggy, JayR( before he upgraded to a real man's plane), and Febtober. I got much respect for those guys though.

 

[KLB]

Oh and I forgot to mention that guy who washed out of training at the 121 carrier also had a 737 type!

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Oh and I forgot to mention that guy who washed out of training at the 121 carrier also had a 737 type!

That only means he had $6500 burning a hole in his pocket.

 

[Trip7]

ASA's a great company to work for but they're the same guys who (when they were still hiring) said I needed to get a RJ course or more glass cockpit time when I came to them with 1000/400ME while everyone with a RJ course got hired with like 300TT Granted this was towards the end of their hiring but at least 3 or 4 classes went through after that.

ASA H.R. department is very statistic oriented. They used a lot of historical data to create their hiring preferences. Looks like they found RJ course grads to have a higher rate of training success than non RJ grads. Same for 135 folks. 135 folks consisted of a higher percentage of failed trainees than other backgrounds.

Personally, I've always believed it really all comes down to the ability of each individual, and not so much their background.

My interview at Mesa was 'Take this ATP-written, brief this approach, when can you start?'

Back in the day they were charging an application fee to apply. Times have changed. Can't wait to see what happens in 3 years.

 

[kellwolf]

Looks like they found RJ course grads to have a higher rate of training success than non RJ grads.

Well, sure. I could pass college with a 4.0 if I paid $40,000 for copies of the tests.

 

[Bandit_Driver]

What part of 121?

Training? The airplane itself? Rules and regulations?

Also, how long did they fly 135? Six month? Year? Two years?


Reason I ask all this is I thought the transition was overall fairly straight forward. Didn't really have any major problems. Curious as to the individuals that make up the statistics.

Call me crazy but I think a regional airline would benefit from a seasoned 135 pilot, especially if that pilot has a lot of North East flying. He would be use to the high workload in those areas and icing. I flew 135 for a couple of years in both a crew environment and single pilot IFR. I didn't find the transition to the regionals that difficult at all. It did take a little extract thinking about the new 121 regs and company/union rules on regarding duty and flight limitations and whitlow completely new. But it isn't anything one can't pickup.


More on topic here: The first cartoon was pretty funny. I agree though the second was completely tasteless and just WRONG....

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I really didn't think they were funny or for that matter tasteless. They make a statement that a large part of the population now thinks. Its freedom of the press. Don't like it, write a letter to the Buffalo Times expressing your distaste.

The resident conservo-fascist preaching about freedom of the press? Now that's rich. The second cartoon was completely tasteless and any editor with a speck of common human decency wouldn't have let it go in his newspaper.

Doubt it. Tell that to the many, many military pilots of single pilot jets who did just fine transitioning to a crew environment.

I've heard our instructors say that many of the former fighter-jocks have the hardest time transitioning. My newhire class had mostly BUFF and tanker guys, so they were already flying in a crew environment before and had no problems, but apparently the fighter guys struggle more than most.

Nonetheless, you're going to have a hard time convincing me that a 300 or 400 hour CFI is better prepared to act as an integral part of the cockpit crew than a 1500+ hour freight pilot who has real world experience flying within the IFR system, to busy airports, at night, and in all kinds of weather.

As an RJ Captain, I learned quickly to dread the trip when the new FO told me that he flew for a small 135 carrier before coming to Pinnacle. They had the worst attitudes and some of the most cowboy flying styles that I've ever seen. The guys from Airnet were the exception. Very professional folks. Never flew with anybody from Amflight.

 

[MikeD]

I've heard our instructors say that many of the former fighter-jocks have the hardest time transitioning. My newhire class had mostly BUFF and tanker guys, so they were already flying in a crew environment before and had no problems, but apparently the fighter guys struggle more than most.
.

And even that too depends on the attitude of the individual, to a large degree. I've flown single-seat fighters for 12 years, and single pilot cargo for years prior to that, yet had no major problems transitioning to a crew aircraft at BP. Just knowing what my job in my seat was supposed to be, what the other guy's job was supposed to be, and how they intertwined; made the transition fairly easy. A very new experience mind you, but fairly easy. I did see other guys with backgrounds similar to mine have a harder time "relinquishing control" in a now crew-environment, if you will. Their biggest hangup was a closed-attitude, that I could see at least.