Mistake in my PRIA?

[BBPILOT737]

About a year ago, I busted a 135 PIC ride administered in the aircraft by a company check airman (turboprop). I subsequently completed the remedial training and passed the second attempt.

I've since begun training at a regional, to whom I was 100% honest during all interview conversations and questionnaires about my previous failure. As terrible as it feels to have the failure on my record, I always have been and always intend to be completely upfront about my training history - there's always a way to turn a negative into a positive, share what I learned from the experience, and show that I'm still an asset as a pilot to whatever company I'm interested in.

Things got interesting when I received a copy of the PRIA documents my previous company sent to the new employer. They indicated that I had never failed a checkride, and there was no copy of the "pink slip" I remember filling out the day I failed - only a copy of the second successful outcome.

I do know that Part 135 permits retraining and re-checking during a checkride, but that was not my understanding of what occurred last year. Is this simply the case of inaccurate records, did the company take a liberty with the regulations on my behalf, or am I misunderstanding the 135 regulations altogether?

I think the honest thing to do would be to simply ask my old chief pilot - but I don't want the company to have to self-disclose anything and face a penalty if this was a mistake. At the same time, I would like to know if I can legally answer no to the question of previous failures on any applications in the future. If it turns out that this was an error, I'm no worse off - Failures happen and I had already come to terms with its place on my PRIA moving forward.

Anyone with some insight or advice?

 

[mshunter]

Anyone with some insight or advice?

Yeah, shut up about it. You just won the lottery.

 

[JordanD]

Taking advice from the Internet, specifically advice that tells you not to disclose something which could lead to very, very bad consequences, probably isn't the best solution in this case.

 

[MikeOH58]

Does an administrative error mean you never really failed the check ride? Integrity, integrity, integrity...

This is like overspeeding the flaps but the airplane didn't record it so you're not going to tell anyone.

Choice is yours...Fess up and no one is likely to care. Hide it and get caught, you'll be fired with cause (and rightfully so).

 

[BBPILOT737]

Does an administrative error mean you never really failed the check ride? Integrity, integrity, integrity...

This is like overspeeding the flaps but the airplane didn't record it, so you're not going to tell anyone.

Choice is yours...Fess up and no one is likely to care. Hide it and get caught, you'll be fired with cause (and rightfully so).

I agree 100% - But there is something in the 135 regs (I can't find it right now) about re-training and re-checking within the same checkride without counting it as a failure. I'm not afraid that calling my old chief will reveal a failure I could have hidden - I'm afraid that the company might get penalized for an administrative error by the FAA.

I've been resigned to having this failure on my record for over a year now. I am with you on the integrity issue - but I don't want to be answering "yes" to a failures question I can legally be answering no to.

 

[Hacker15e]

A busted checkride is nothing to worry about.

Disclose it, talk about it if they ask you, and don't worry weather or not your PRIA backs that up. It will give you something interesting to talk about during your interview at your next job.

These things are integrity checks -- it isn't about if you did or didn't bust a ride. Unless you have 4 or 5 of 'em, nobody really cares.

 

[Hacker15e]

I think the honest thing to do would be to simply ask my old chief pilot - but I don't want the company to have to self-disclose anything and face a penalty if this was a mistake. At the same time, I would like to know if I can legally answer no to the question of previous failures on any applications in the future. If it turns out that this was an error, I'm no worse off - Failures happen and I had already come to terms with its place on my PRIA moving forward.

BTW, I'd just let this be. Frankly, internal company accounting at a company you no longer work for is none of your biz anymore. Don't bother, get on with your life and career.

 

[TWP]

I would bet that if your current company finds out about the failure, the excuse that your old company didn't report properly might not fly.

Again, these companies don't care about a failed check ride. They REALLY care about you hiding failed check rides though.

I would get in touch with whoever handles this and tell them what the deal is because the company finding out about this later on leads to:
1) Being fired (if they are nice they will ask you to resign)
2) Developing a name for yourself. Everyone knows the name of the guy in class who gets canned for PRIA not lining up and he becomes radioactive

 

[BBPILOT737]

I would bet that if your current company finds out about the failure, the excuse that your old company didn't report properly might not fly.

Again, these companies don't care about a failed check ride. They REALLY care about you hiding failed check rides though.

I would get in touch with whoever handles this and tell them what the deal is because the company finding out about this later on leads to:
1) Being fired (if they are nice they will ask you to resign)
2) Developing a name for yourself. Everyone knows the name of the guy in class who gets canned for PRIA not lining up and he becomes radioactive

Just to be clear - there is nothing for my company to find out. Under the assumption that the failure would show up in my PRIA packet, I told my new employer all about it. The surprise was when the old company checked a box indicating I had never failed any type of checkride.

 

[Hacker15e]

He's good; he said he all ready disclosed it at the regional interview and on the application.

He was concerned about the opposite; about having disclosed it, but NOT having his PRIA records reflect it.

 

[Bandit_Driver]

Alway check the box to receive a copy of your FAA records. If a company were to self disclose to the FAA, I doubt anything would happen to them.

Go talk to your old chief pilot. You may not have busted, it may have just been an UNSAT in one event and they retrained to and you passed.

 

[mshunter]

Alway check the box to receive a copy of your FAA records. If a company were to self disclose to the FAA, I doubt anything would happen to them.

Go talk to your old chief pilot. You may not have busted, it may have just been an UNSAT in one event and they retrained to and you passed.

I've done that for every company I've ever worked for, and never, not even once, received a copy, or any correspondence letting me know that they charged a fee for it. PRIA needs to change reflecting they are required to respond.

 

[Roger Roger]

Summa y'all needed to fully read the OP before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Nark]

Summa y'all needed to fully read the OP before jumping to conclusions.

Come on man, that's not the JC way...

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

A touch of insight, during the initial check, you may not fail any required maneuvers. This is a "bust" you then have to retrain, and then recheck. The person who fails you may not retrain and then recheck. During initial training, the check airman may not have done any of the recent training (last three sims)

On a recurrent check ride, the examiner *may* be allowed to suspend the check, retrain, and then recheck.. I say may, because it depends on the FOM, POI and the examiners authorization. Retraining may be as simple as briefing and debriefing, or demonstrating the maneuver..

without more details, no idea. If nothing in your Praia, sounds like a retrain and check, not a bust.

 

[TWP]

Just to be clear - there is nothing for my company to find out. Under the assumption that the failure would show up in my PRIA packet, I told my new employer all about it. The surprise was when the old company checked a box indicating I had never failed any type of checkride.

Ah you should be good then. It's disclosed in writing, you've been a good boy and I'm told we receive scooby snacks sometimes for things like that! I misread your original post.

 

[ScorpionStinger]

Summa y'all needed to fully read the OP before jumping to conclusions.

This!!!!!!

The rapid response finger-mouths on here i tell ya!

 

[Bandit_Driver]

I've done that for every company I've ever worked for, and never, not even once, received a copy, or any correspondence letting me know that they charged a fee for it. PRIA needs to change reflecting they are required to respond.

I've always receive the file from the FAA and what the employer sent. Never got a bill for any of it.

They do need to make it clear that the employer needs to send the info within X days. I've heard horror stories of disgruntled employees not sending or delaying sending in PRIA docs to get back at the employee. Luckily all my PRIA came back quickly.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[z987k]

I've always receive the file from the FAA and what the employer sent. Never got a bill for any of it.

They do need to make it clear that the employer needs to send the info within X days. I've heard horror stories of disgruntled employees not sending or delaying sending in PRIA docs to get back at the employee. Luckily all my PRIA came back quickly.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The regulation regarding PRIA makes it very clear. If someone's doing that crap, throw the book at them.

 

[murphfly]

In my opinion the only outcomes on a 135 check are satisfactory, unsatisfactory, & discontinued. Terms like bust, passed, failed, and 'pink slip' are not accurate ways to describe the outcome. The CA has quite a bit of discretion on considering something unsat and subsequently retraining & rechecking that item. Perhaps that is all that happened? Maybe there is a second 8410 form because the CA didn't have time to complete the check in the same day?

I would call your old chief pilot or the check airman who administered the check and ask them. Good luck!