Misdemeanor - Expunged

[flyforpay]

I have a misdemeanor charge from 1992 not a dui fwiw and it has since been expunged. My question is, will this be an issue for employment. My goal is to fly for the airlines or 135 one day. I read the other thread regarding misdemeanors but it seems my situation is a bit different.

Any advice and feedback will be well received! Thanks!

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

I don't know what state your conviction was in and state law varies. In many (most?) states with expunction procedures, the legal effect is as though it never happened. Once it processes through the system, there is simply no record (in some states not even an arrest record) and you are entitled to answer "no" to questions about the conviction's existence. You need to speak with an attorney in your state who can review the papers and advise you what it means and what it entitles you to say or not say.

Your question also has a practical aspect I can't answer. I've seen discussions in which folks have said you should disclose it to an employer anyway. I'm not sure why one would go through the expunction process and not use its benefit.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

Once it processes through the system, there is simply no record (in some states not even an arrest record) and you are entitled to answer "no" to questions about the conviction's existence.

Be careful.

This is true for state records, but the FBI does not purge their historical records as a result of expunged records. There is a deeper layer of FBI records that goes beyond convictions and active warrants, etc. This deeper layer might not be commonly used and may be limited to security clearance investigations, but it's there.

Also, there is a growing body of private databases that document arrests and convictions. More and more HR departments are outsourcing their background checks and using private databases.

With regard to the military, in general, and security clearances, specifically, you must answer all questions truthfully. That's the standard.

In 1987, I was arrested for suspicion of DWI in Virginia. Despite only having one drink, I failed the breathalizer test. The blood test eventually proved my innocence and the case was dismissed. It kills me that I have to periodically reveal the arrest and explain the circumstances.

It's a tough question. If I was positive that there was no record that a private sector employer had access to, I would take my chances and plead choirboy.

 

[gtlyon]

Also, there is a growing body of private databases that document arrests and convictions. More and more HR departments are outsourcing their background checks and using private databases.

True but...in California, and this may hold true for most states:

PRIVATE CRIMINAL DATABASES: These are for profit databases that gather your criminal information (and other information such as phone numbers, addresses, etc.), package this information into segments, and then sell it to interested parties, such as an employer running a criminal background report on you. 99% of criminal background checks done for employment are ran through a private criminal database. Fortunately, we have federal and state laws that protect us from these private databases showing inaccurate information about us. Under California law an expunged criminal case is not allowed to be shown on a criminal background check ran for employment purposes. Furthermore, California law mandates that these private database companies must first verify, with the court from which the criminal record originates, any negative information about you before delivering your criminal report to a potential employer. Thus, under California law your expunged criminal case will not be shown on your criminal background report, period.

 

[gtlyon]

To add, for the state of California of course, again this may hold true for other states, if an employer requires finger prints and a signature from you releasing your official Department of Justice (DOJ) criminal record, then they will see your prior convictions and the fact that they have been expunged.

Pretty much any government job will conduct an official DOJ background check before extending employment, including such professions as: fire fighter, police officer, public school teacher, etc. I am not too sure where the FAA fits in here but it seems it will show up.

So if asked be honest IMHO. If that is the only issue you have and it was such a long time ago it may not even be a concern.. remember if you LIE you DIE, figuratively speaking of course!

 

[Pilot Fighter]

Under California law an expunged criminal case is not allowed to be shown on a criminal background check ran for employment purposes.

I'm going to research this law. I have a hard time believing that a company can't disclose information that was verified to be true on a certain date.

Beyond that, if law as you describe, the database maintainer could avoid asking for reason for search.

 

[gtlyon]

I have a hard time believing that a company can't disclose information that was verified to be true on a certain date.

I totally understand your line of thought here, but keeping in mind, private companies ( that you've applied too ) that do a background check accessing private databases fall into this category, therefore they have to follow the prescribed law(s), meaning they have to verify the charge(s). I can only assume private databases can have incorrect info. in them since they just gather unverified information from the web or other sources, hence the need for verification. Your FBI/DOJ database record will be correct.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

To add, for the state of California of course, again this may hold true for other states, if an employer requires finger prints and a signature from you releasing your official Department of Justice (DOJ) criminal record, then they will see your prior convictions and the fact that they have been expunged.

Pretty much any government job will conduct an official DOJ background check before extending employment, including such professions as: fire fighter, police officer, public school teacher, etc. I am not too sure where the FAA fits in here but it seems it will show up.

So if asked be honest IMHO. If that is the only issue you have and it was such a long time ago it may not even be a concern.. remember if you LIE you DIE, figuratively speaking of course!

Exactly. States can't force the Feds to remove or amend records.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

Exactly. States can't force the Feds to remove or amend records.

But at the same time, the Feds can't create a state conviction when there isn't one. IOW, if the state in which the person was convicted says he isn't convicted and has no record, that is (should be?) the legal reality - he wasn't convicted and has no criminal record. It would be as if someone were found not guilty and the fed record recorded he was found guilty. In those states where that rule applies, the person who says no is not lying. It is the legal truth of a legal procedure defined by state law.

The practical reality might be different.That's exactly why one needs to discuss this with a knowledgeable attorney unless his decision is to disclose even if it's not required.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

But at the same time, the Feds can't create a state conviction when there isn't one. IOW, if the state in which the person was convicted says he isn't convicted and has no record, that is (should be?) the legal reality - he wasn't convicted and has no criminal record. It would be as if someone were found not guilty and the fed record recorded he was found guilty. In those states where that rule applies, the person who says no is not lying. It is the legal truth of a legal procedure defined by state law.

The practical reality might be different.That's exactly why one needs to discuss this with a knowledgeable attorney unless his decision is to disclose even if it's not required.

I totally agree about seeking professional advice. I just wanted to add a bit about federal records.

I also wanted to point out that if you were ever arrested in the United States, the FBI (or other agency) has a record of it. It might be a layer that is not routinely used or disseminated in normal background checks and might be limited to security clearances, but it is there.

 

[Vector]

I totally agree about seeking professional advice. I just wanted to add a bit about federal records.

I also wanted to point out that if you were ever arrested in the United States, the FBI (or other agency) has a record of it. It might be a layer that is not routinely used or disseminated in normal background checks and might be limited to security clearances, but it is there.

I believe what you referring to is the NCIC check.

 

[gtlyon]

I believe it boils down to how the question of " have you committed any crimes...." is asked or worded on an app and then go from there.

I also agree that seeking legal advice is the best route first.

I assume certain aviation jobs will conduct a background and DOJ finger prints?

 

[mshunter]

Probably a more important question is what shows on your NDR printout. It may be expunged through the state, but it may still be in your NDR.

Oh, NDR is for National Driver Registry. Basically, know what info an employer will be able to access, so you aren't caught with your pants down. Do your own background check first. And it is possible to get things removed from your federal records too.

 

[gtlyon]

This topic has me curious, I have been through backgrounds with law enforcement, what is included in an airline background?

 

[Old Pete]

I'm going to research this law. I have a hard time believing that a company can't disclose information that was verified to be true on a certain date.

Beyond that, if law as you describe, the database maintainer could avoid asking for reason for search.

While I don't know California law, I can assure you that other states have similar laws. If a company violates reporting laws they can face civil penalties.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

While I don't know California law, I can assure you that other states have similar laws. If a company violates reporting laws they can face civil penalties.

I am going to take a look at the CA law.

Specifically, if I market government data for no specific purpose, I can't see how a state could keep me from stating that there was a state record of a single conviction in years 1987 through 2014, and a 2015 search reveals nothing.

I can see how law could mandate employer behavior, forcing them to treat expunged records like clean records, but it seems like a free speech issue if you censor me from publishing government records that were correct in the year that they were stated to be correct.

As far as the military goes, they don't care about expungement, they want to know about every arrest, regardless of outcome, including expunged cases, for good reason.

 

[Old Pete]

I can see how law could mandate employer behavior, forcing them to treat expunged records like clean records, but it seems like a free speech issue if you censor me from publishing government records that were correct in the year that they were stated to be correct.

Credit reporting bureaus are highly regulated by both the state and Federal government. I am not aware of any free speech issues with that. A private company that provides criminal background data could just as easily be regulated.

As far as the military goes, they don't care about expungement, they want to know about every arrest, regardless of outcome, including expunged cases, for good reason.

What good reason would there be for any employer, including the military to know about your 1987 arrest?

 

[gtlyon]

Credit reporting bureaus are highly regulated by both the state and Federal government. I am not aware of any free speech issues with that. A private company that provides criminal background data could just as easily be regulated.

They are in the sense, they need to verify the info. which they won't ever do because it takes time and money. Official, not for profit places i.e. FBI/DOJ, will have the correct info.

What good reason would there be for any employer, including the military to know about your 1987 arrest?

I speculate for security clearance(s) at the very least.

 

[Old Pete]

I speculate for security clearance(s) at the very least.

Why? in fact I wouldn't be surprised if he has a security clearance.

 

[gtlyon]

Why? in fact I wouldn't be surprised if he has a security clearance.

Well, maybe if someone is applying for a specific MOS that requires a specific level clearance, then maybe you are asked to reveal any convictions etc.? I am just guessing so I apologize if this is inaccurate.