'Miracle on the Hudson' Gets Closer Study

fholbert

fholbert

Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
This is BS! Put it in the sim with pilots who know what and when it's going happen and they can make the airport.


When federal crash investigators on Tuesday issue their final report about last year's emergency landing of a US Airways jetliner in the Hudson River, Capt. Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger will still shine as the calm, decisive hero of "The Miracle on the Hudson."

But tucked inside thousands of pages of testimony and exhibits are hints that, in hindsight, the celebrated pilot could have made it back to LaGuardia Airport. Pilots who used simulators to recreate the accident—including suddenly losing both engines after sucking in birds at 2,500 feet—repeatedly managed to safely land their virtual airliners at LaGuardia.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703612804575222482042335978.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_6
 
are you trying to say that the whole, "at 2500', both engines will shut down, make an immediate turn to the airport and you should be able to make the runway" gave the sim pilots an advantage over actual pilots dealing with an unplanned situation? no way.
 
I wondered how long this would take.... total BS. Dude did the best he could as PIC and everyone walked away. (Period) :cool:
 
Well guys, remember this dual engine shutdown crap was thought impossible. We are just trying to learn. Sully is a safety expert, I'm sure he'll champion this study as well as every investigation. There's a lot of ways to skin a cat.
 
there was a similar thing in the investigation of the air lauda 767 that was lost after an inflight tr deployment.

if you told them when, and which side the tr would deploy, it was survivable. if only someone had been there to tell the accident pilots when and which side the tr would deploy.
 
gne in prog said:
are you trying to say that the whole, "at 2500', both engines will shut down, make an immediate turn to the airport and you should be able to make the runway" gave the sim pilots an advantage over actual pilots dealing with an unplanned situation? no way.
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I'm not saying that. You're agreeing with me.
 
No matter how good the outcome, there are always things that we can learn from these incidents. It is good to go over everyone's actions with a critical eye with the intention of increasing the knowledge base of good (and bad) things to do.
 
I'm seen a lot of pilots killed when they tried to make it back to the runway instead of flying the disabled aircraft. I'm not buying into this one.

Joe
 
Don't know... on the down side people will try to Monday-morning quarter back this to death. On the positive side I hope we can all learn from accidents and incidents, no matter the outcome. This is why I have always said and written that if I am killed in a crash feel free to dissect my actions and try to learn from them.
On the flip side Sully did not have much time to make a decision. Yes, he might have made it to LGA, but I'm not sure what the outcome would have been if he did not make it. Would have needed to clear the Bronx, then Long Island Sound. Outcome in Long Island Sound might not have been as good as the Hudson- not sure of the sea state that day. Outcome if they did not clear the Bronx... well, use your imagination. Sometimes you have to fold based upon the hand you were dealt. You can hope the dealer gives you a great card, but if this doesn't happen you're hosed. The crew was dealt a horrible hand and did better than most would have. They sacrificed the aircraft but saved everyone on board. At the end of the day that's a successful outcome in my book.
 
Blackhawk said:
Don't know... on the down side people will try to Monday-morning quarter back this to death. On the positive side I hope we can all learn from accidents and incidents, no matter the outcome. This is why I have always said and written that if I am killed in a crash feel free to dissect my actions and try to learn from them.
On the flip side Sully did not have much time to make a decision. Yes, he might have made it to LGA, but I'm not sure what the outcome would have been if he did not make it. Would have needed to clear the Bronx, then Long Island Sound. Outcome in Long Island Sound might not have been as good as the Hudson- not sure of the sea state that day. Outcome if they did not clear the Bronx... well, use your imagination. Sometimes you have fold based upon the hand you were dealt. You can hope the dealer gives you a great card, but if this doesn't happen your hosed. The crew was dealt a horrible hand and did better than most would have. They sacrificed the aircraft but saved everyone on board. At the end of the day that's a successful outcome in my book.
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Exactly. Sometimes the difference between success and failure is razor thin. The accident that most comes to mind on this idea is the USAF A-7D Corsair II at Indianpolis, IN in 1987. Single engine, engine failure, on top of the WX, attempts a dead-stick ASR approach, breaks out too high over the airport and attempts to circle for a different runway, cant make that and ejects. Jet goes into the airport Ramada Inn, killing 9 people. It was the gamble between ejecting and getting rid of the jet while still away from the city (but unknown exactly what was underneath him due to the WX), or bringing the sick jet over and into the city in an attempt to make the airport.

By contrast, in Oct 1978, another USAF A-7D was on approach to Davis-Monthan AFB when it had an engine malfunction. On approach to RW 12 and over the University of AZ, the pilot couldn't make the base and was over Mansfield Middle School, so he steered it down, lined it up with an empty football field, and ejected at 200AGL. But post ejection, the jet banked right and impacted Highland Ave which was fairly clear, right up until a Chevy Vega with two females inside pulled onto the street from an alley entrance, were hit by the jet coming down the street, and burned to death.

So again, as I've said many times here, the grim reaper of aviation will come and get you when and where he pleases, and he shows neither favoritism nor prejudice on when that time will be and who it will be for.
 
Well even if he had superhuman reflexes along with the foresight to know that neither engine would restart, all he'd have done is go head-on with the next departure out of LGA along with pointing it back towards the city. Something you don't really have to worry about in the sim...
 
gne in prog said:
there was a similar thing in the investigation of the air lauda 767 that was lost after an inflight tr deployment.

if you told them when, and which side the tr would deploy, it was survivable. if only someone had been there to tell the accident pilots when and which side the tr would deploy.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I read an article about the accident that cited crew error as one cause saying "The crew had a 13 second window to realize what was happening and do this this and this while doing this and the plane wouldn't have broken apart".:rolleyes:
 
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