Military Vs Civilian Airline Hiring

poser765

poser765

Well-Known Member
Does anyone have any numbers or know of study they can point me towards that breaks down the number of pilots entering the 121 world coming from a military aviation background vs a civilian one?

No real reason for the request other than just pure curiosity. Thanks.
 
You will further need to subdivide it into the "legacy" carriers, and UPS/FDX. The answer will be different as most of what we traditionally call "regionals" hire almost exclusively civilian.
 
seagull said:
You will further need to subdivide it into the "legacy" carriers, and UPS/FDX. The answer will be different as most of what we traditionally call "regionals" hire almost exclusively civilian.
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I kind of figured most regionals did hire mostly us. But I don't have anything to back that up with. And since you bring it up, what is the story like with the majors?
 
poser765 said:
I kind of figured most regionals did hire mostly us. But I don't have anything to back that up with. And since you bring it up, what is the story like with the majors?
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I don't know any specific numbers but I can tell you that most of the AF pilots I fly with either flew for the airlines and many were furloughed and will not go back and several are still waiting for the hiring to start again. There is obviously a little movement, but it sure is slow. But...several reservists are flying for the majors and a couple for the regionals. It might be real hard to find concrete numbers anywhere.
 
Most of the reservist instructors we had when I was in flight school were pilots with the majors. No idea how that breaks down with the overall cross section of employees, but it is a very common career path following the end of one's active duty obligations.
 
///AMG said:
Most of the reservist instructors we had when I was in flight school were pilots with the majors. No idea how that breaks down with the overall cross section of employees, but it is a very common career path following the end of one's active duty obligations.
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Oh no doubt it is. I think what sparks this thread is the debate/myth/fact/whatever that airlines prefer to hire ex military. I hear all the time how SWA prefers to only hire ex military but then I hear how that is not true. I tend to be in the camp that thinks the numbers are pretty even. I also tend to think there are far more civilians wanting to enter the 121 world than military pilots. Just thought I might see if there are some numbers out there.
 
Can't speak to overall numbers, but I agree that there is a mix of folks from the mil side wanting to go commercial vs wanting to do something else. If there is a significant difference in overall numbers, I would guess the reason would be that building the required hours for employment at a major can be cost/lifestyle prohibitive for a lot of civilian guys, so maybe there aren't as many looking to get into it comparatively. I know a lot of mil folks go to SW, but this might mostly boil down to the level of networking that a military background affords you in the aviation business.
 
Are you looking for the breakdown of civ-vs-mil in the newhire classes at all part 121 carriers?

I don't know that such data exists in a summarized way. Perhaps if you contacted each carrier they might be able to let someone manually crunch that data, though, if it were for some kind of research project.

My bet is that it varies highly carrier-to-carrier and class-to-class through time, with no solid trend data over a short period.

Just purely anecdotal data suggests that today, in 2010, the percentage of military guys is significantly less than it was 10 or 20 years ago (and even then, less percentage wise than 30 or 40 years ago).

Mostly due to declining numbers of military pilot production post-Desert Storm and differences in retention of those numbers post-9/11.
 
Hacker15e said:
Are you looking for the breakdown of civ-vs-mil in the newhire classes at all part 121 carriers?

I don't know that such data exists in a summarized way. Perhaps if you contacted each carrier they might be able to let someone manually crunch that data, though, if it were for some kind of research project.

My bet is that it varies highly carrier-to-carrier and class-to-class through time, with no solid trend data over a short period.

Just purely anecdotal data suggests that today, in 2010, the percentage of military guys is significantly less than it was 10 or 20 years ago (and even then, less percentage wise than 30 or 40 years ago).

Mostly due to declining numbers of military pilot production post-Desert Storm and differences in retention of those numbers post-9/11.
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Hacker, no i'm not doing any kind of reasonable research project or study. I really just wanted to get some insight for my own personal curiosity...maybe would also like some validation on my own personal opinions.

Everything you said is the way I tend to look at it. The numbers I am sure vary and have tipped more in favor of the civilian pilot the last 30 years or so. Every so often I hear the myth that military pilots are getting all the airline jobs. I just can't bring myself to believe that extreme, nor can I believe that we civilians are getting them all either.
 
The hiring wave at SouthernJets that I was hired during (07-08) the civ/mil ratio was about 60/40 during the first nine months and about 50/50 during the last half.
 
There is no answer to your question because it depends on "when". 25 years ago the AF was pumping out 2,000 pilots per year. At one point in the 90's it dipped as low as 400 per year. During this time the Active Duty service commitment was all over the map with additional commitments garnered by bonus money to stay in. Over the last 2 decades the military career compensation package has been climbing while the commercial side has been declining. There are of course, other significant considerations but if you take a moment and separate it out, clearly the military pilot career is hands down winner for compensation over the civilian career. Not so 20 years ago. Often the choice is driven by other factors but at the end of the day you will simply find fewer military aviators in line for airline jobs so the numbers will be lower now, and going forward.

Great news if you are working your way up from the civilian side.

Bad news if you expect your career earnings to be even a fraction of what commercial pilots earned of yesteryear.
 
Yeah dude, if your intent with this casual investigation is to alleviate concerns about a future as a civilian background guy going into 121 flying, seriously don't worry. There are plenty of guys with no mil background flying 121 heavy metal today, and there should be plenty more in the future. I'd just throw out the fact that when the economy went to hell, I know that a lot of guys who were on the fence about getting out and going commercial ended up deciding to stay in for job security and other reasons.
 
///AMG said:
Yeah dude, if your intent with this casual investigation is to alleviate concerns about a future as a civilian background guy going into 121 flying, seriously don't worry. There are plenty of guys with no mil background flying 121 heavy metal today, and there should be plenty more in the future. I'd just throw out the fact that when the economy went to hell, I know that a lot of guys who were on the fence about getting out and going commercial ended up deciding to stay in for job security and other reasons.
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No no...not the case. I pretty much see what everyone here has been saying. I've seen recently a quite a few people (not here) who tend to think that the only way to an airline career is to come from the military. I would like to dispel this myth but didn't really have any hard evidence...just my own personal opinions and experience with those I have known personally.
 
poser765 said:
No no...not the case. I pretty much see what everyone here has been saying. I've seen recently a quite a few people (not here) who tend to think that the only way to an airline career is to come from the military. I would like to dispel this myth but didn't really have any hard evidence...just my own personal opinions and experience with those I have known personally.
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Granted this is not official coming from me but, I do have direct personal experience with the subject. Like I said earlier Delta's hiring has been about 60/40 in favor of civilians since hiring began in 2007. And, CAL had been about 75/25 in favor of civilians since 2004. Airtran is about 90% civilian total. As far as the other majors I have no clue.
 
JoelT said:
Granted this is not official coming from me but, I do have direct personal experience with the subject. Like I said earlier Delta's hiring has been about 60/40 in favor of civilians since hiring began in 2007. And, CAL had been about 75/25 in favor of civilians since 2004. Airtran is about 90% civilian total. As far as the other majors I have no clue.
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that's good. Whatever experience you have is certainly more credible than mine.

Thanks all for the replies.
 
Not any numbers for you hear, but most times when I jumpseat on SWA, I chat with crew members and they say they hire pilots with a variety of backgorunds (freight, regional, MIL).
 
scooter2525 said:
Not any numbers for you hear, but most times when I jumpseat on SWA, I chat with crew members and they say they hire pilots with a variety of backgorunds (freight, regional, MIL).
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Yea they interview anyone.


On the regional side military pilots are pretty low to non existent. Plenty of mil backgrounds though. If you are a military guy chances are you're going corporate or trying for the better majors.
 
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