Mid-air over Longmont, CO

BCTAv8r said:
This is a constant problem down here in South FL. The weather has been awesome which just makes it even worse.

While in the practice area, it's not unusual for someone to state their position as flying over the same landmark you're flying over only for you to see that they're somewhere else completely (we use pumping stations, so they all look alike and are often misidentified).
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PHX too. The area north of SDL and DVT is completely saturated with training traffic. The day I flew into SDL from the north was a terrible day to stop sniffing glue.
 
Had some close calls myself that afternoon out here in CA, always in the back of my mind and I dread reading stories like this one. :(
 
BCTAv8r said:
This is a constant problem down here in South FL. The weather has been awesome which just makes it even worse.

While in the practice area, it's not unusual for someone to state their position as flying over the same landmark you're flying over only for you to see that they're somewhere else completely (we use pumping stations, so they all look alike and are often misidentified).
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Language. That's a big problem in the Miami area. Not just language spoken, but not understanding WTF you are saying or being asked. I was 5 miles south of an airport inbound to land and I heard a pilot call out "XXX traffic, cessna 152 N123AB is 5 miles LEFT of the airport." Left of the airport?!?!? I tried a few times to figure out where he was. Asked what his compass says, what do you see in front of you, but unfortunately communication was a barrier to helping him. The pilot didn't have a clue how to navigate.

The alert areas in Miami are a disaster. There are four of them, A-291A, B, C & D. All over swamps with no real distinguishable landmarks, unless you're really a local and have the local knowledge of stuff like "Old Man Wilson's Farm", the Eastern 401 and ValuJet 592 crash sites. Broadcasting on 122.75 and making this radio call "Alert Area traffic, Cessna 152 doing stalls over the alligator." doesn't do much to the transient flyer. It leaves out which alert area you're talking about, throwing in the nearest airport would be helpful, and maneuvering altitudes.

These two found out the hard way: C152 collided with a PA30 that was on an IFR flight plan and in and out of VMC while talking to the controller at Pompano.

http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentReports/ywiyaz5530s2guvznzkenw451/Q03252012120000.pdf
 
A150K said:
PHX too. The area north of SDL and DVT is completely saturated with training traffic. The day I flew into SDL from the north was a terrible day to stop sniffing glue.
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We use 122.75 north of Phoenix and 122.85 south for air to air collision avoidance. You might not know the reporting points, but if you give your distance from the airport we'll know where you are and keep a lookout.

Our flight school bought PCAS units and is installing ADS-B with a traffic alert system in all aircraft by the end of the year. It's almost a necessity with how busy the airspace is some days.
 
CFI A&P said:
Language. That's a big problem in the Miami area. Not just language spoken, but not understanding WTF you are saying or being asked. I was 5 miles south of an airport inbound to land and I heard a pilot call out "XXX traffic, cessna 152 N123AB is 5 miles LEFT of the airport." Left of the airport?!?!? I tried a few times to figure out where he was. Asked what his compass says, what do you see in front of you, but unfortunately communication was a barrier to helping him. The pilot didn't have a clue how to navigate.

The alert areas in Miami are a disaster. There are four of them, A-291A, B, C & D. All over swamps with no real distinguishable landmarks, unless you're really a local and have the local knowledge of stuff like "Old Man Wilson's Farm", the Eastern 401 and ValuJet 592 crash sites. Broadcasting on 122.75 and making this radio call "Alert Area traffic, Cessna 152 doing stalls over the alligator." doesn't do much to the transient flyer. It leaves out which alert area you're talking about, throwing in the nearest airport would be helpful, and maneuvering altitudes.

These two found out the hard way: C152 collided with a PA30 that was on an IFR flight plan and in and out of VMC while talking to the controller at Pompano.

http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentReports/ywiyaz5530s2guvznzkenw451/Q03252012120000.pdf
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You guys use crash sites as reporting points?:eek2:
 
Now that the names have been released...

I didn't know Ryan Brungardt, the CFI, but I knew who he was. He may have been one of the CFI's McAir hired instead of me. I didn't know the student. The airplane, N10468 was one I flew many, many times and even did my CFI-I checkride in it with Bev Cameron, the pilot of the other plane. N10468 was a G-1000 Skyhawk, with TIS traffic alerting, so they had to have known the other plane was close by

Edit: I don't want it to appear that I'm pointing fingers, or blaming anybody. All traffic alerting and avoidance systems have their limitations and TIS is no different.
 
Mike H said:
Now that the names have been released...

I didn't know Ryan Brungardt, the CFI, but I knew who he was. He may have been one of the CFI's McAir hired instead of me. I didn't know the student. The airplane, N10468 was one I flew many, many times and even did my CFI-I checkride in it with Bev Cameron, the pilot of the other plane. N10468 was a G-1000 Skyhawk, with TIS traffic alerting, so they had to have known the other plane was close by

Edit: I don't want it to appear that I'm pointing fingers, or blaming anybody. All traffic alerting and avoidance systems have their limitations and TIS is no different.
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Yea I was gonna say... TIS isn't perfect. It's a great tool, but I wouldn't rely on it.

RIP to these guys. I hate hearing these news stories.
 
Ryan was a great CFI who truely loved to fly. His attitude and approach to teaching was one of the best. He taught me so much about flying and I'm truely devastated I can't learn more from him. RIP
 
Sorry to hear about what happened up there near Longmont the other day. I have some great memories from instructing up there with McAir and have been right there many times in that exact airplane doing exactly what they were doing so it really hits home. Just remember, this can happen to ANYONE!

RIP to those we lost!
 
I flew into KLMO fairly soon after the incident and the approach controller informed me of what had recently happened and my heart sank. RIP and my condolences go out to all affected. :(
 
A150K said:
You guys use crash sites as reporting points?:eek2:
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The swamp is like a desert. Nothing changes unless there is a major event to displace the vegetation- fire, plane crash, hurricane....It's just swamp, canals, a couple roads and some Indian casinos with airboat rides out there. The disasters and the fuel spills that happened with them changed the vegetation a little bit. Most of the student pilots that way were barely born at the time of the ValuJet crash.
 
It's been a very tough few days for the McAir family. The support we've received from current & past employees/students has been amazing.

Ryan & Lee were wonderful people and will be greatly missed. Bev is a wonderful gal and our thoughts are with her too.

For those interested, we are putting together a fund-raiser soon for both families. I'll post more details as we firm things up.

Fly safe out there.
 
Mid-airs are one of my greatest fears! RIP to the victims. :(
bike21 said:
It's been a very tough few days for the McAir family. The support we've received from current & past employees/students has been amazing.

Ryan & Lee were wonderful people and will be greatly missed. Bev is a wonderful gal and our thoughts are with her too.

For those interested, we are putting together a fund-raiser soon for both families. I'll post more details as we firm things up.

Fly safe out there.
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Sorry about your loss Nick. :(
 
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