Mesa..please go away!

[MissedApproach]

2nd year B1900 Capt at Amflight $40,800 vs Mesa at $30,628.

There's more money in boxes so I'm told. I was comparing only passenger air service B1900 scales.

Playing devils advocate, perhaps you'd like to consider Mesa's work rules as hourly rates are only half the battle?

Mesa does indeed have some significant labor/ work rules issues. Not trying to defend mesa, just providing everyone with some clear numbers. It's not right when something is attacked based on information that is false...even if it is mesa.

 

[wheelsup]

These are the annual minimum guarantee figures. Most airlines were 75hr x 12, mesa is 76hr x 13. A significant oversight that people always seem to miss when analyzing pay.

A significant oversight is not even considering the other contract items. Why? Mesa pays "credit" time for flights, which never changes if you fly over that amount. Examples (from Mesa Hub)

Case in point, my IAD-ATL a few days ago was blocked at 39 min according to crewweb. Was not aware that i was breaking the sound barrier that day.

Gotcha beat, I made it from IAD to CAE in 7 count em 7 min.

I understand your reasoning in quoting payrates alone but one has to consider other things when looking at a company besides payrates alone IMO.

Mesa's MEC was recently replaced. Hopefully they can turn things around.

 

[wheelsup]

With all due respect, your comment regarding the regionals as a stepping stone and therefore a reason to just sit back and take it bothers me a bit. This day in time, pilots are being forced to stay at regionals longer and longer so just taking isn't exactly helping the situation. If we don't try to raise the bar the problem will be perpetuated.

Talk about putting words in my mouth ! I don't think I ever said to "just sit back and take it" but IMO the regionals will never be as well paying or have the same benefits/contracts that the legacies have. They will always be at their codeshare partners' whim - and will open and close bases with inpunity. Their contracts are being canceled for the next lowest bidder. Alter egos are being created to get around contracts, etc. etc.

 

[Cav]

Talk about putting words in my mouth ! I don't think I ever said to "just sit back and take it" but IMO the regionals will never be as well paying or have the same benefits/contracts that the legacies have. They will always be at their codeshare partners' whim - and will open and close bases with inpunity. Their contracts are being canceled for the next lowest bidder. Alter egos are being created to get around contracts, etc. etc.

Perhaps I may have been a bit over zealous after I reread your original comments. My appologies.

As for Mesa pay rates. Thanks for clarifying whne you're wrong you're wrong, I stand corrected. I'm still not sold on the place but perhaps work rules and contract enforcement are the real issues here....or maybe JO. I would like to see Mesa pilots take a stand. With a new MEC maybe they will do just that.

 

[Mr_Creepy]

Mesa must be like the "Amway" of aviation. Just mention the word and the fur flies!

Don't know why, it's not the worst place in the world. I was treated better there than at Eagle, CCAir (before Mesa bought them), Air Midwest (ok that was owned by Mesa at the time) and definitely better than Midway.

 

[Cav]

Mesa must be like the "Amway" of aviation. Just mention the word and the fur flies!

Don't know why, it's not the worst place in the world. I was treated better there than at Eagle, CCAir (before Mesa bought them), Air Midwest (ok that was owned by Mesa at the time) and definitely better than Midway.

Perhaps it's MAPD/PACE, JO, or both that really get to people. Who knows.

By the way, what did you think of the race last Sun? My drivers Kahne and Sadler are off to a pretty good start. It might be a good year for both especially Sadler despite an avg. run in California.

 

[Mr_Creepy]

Perhaps it's MAPD/PACE, JO, or both that really get to people. Who knows.

By the way, what did you think of the race last Sun? My drivers Kahne and Sadler are off to a pretty good start. It might be a good year for both especially Sadler despite an avg. run in California.

You have a point there. MAPD and Mesa are often associated, when really they are separate entities with separate everything. I don't even think there is common ownership anymore since I heard MAG sold MAPD a while back. Maybe WheelsUp can update us.

JO is just another airline CEO - doing all the evil things the CEOs do. I don't have any less (or any more) respect for him than people like Leo Mullins, Bob Ferguson, etc. And I have enormously more respect for him than true jerks like Steve Wolf.

NASCAR: After California? Look who is in 2nd place in points - Casey Mears!

Kasey and Elliot are two I like to watch also. Elliot is due for a break. He's been fast for two years and had the rug pulled out towards chase time.

 

[wheelsup]

You have a point there. MAPD and Mesa are often associated, when really they are separate entities with separate everything. I don't even think there is common ownership anymore since I heard MAG sold MAPD a while back. Maybe WheelsUp can update us.

As a CFI there, I was a MAG employee complete with the non-rev benefits, health insurance, company badge, etc. I went down to the crystal palace to get that stuff done.

My paychecks offically said "MPD, Inc." if I remember correctly, however. On the flip side, it was the MAG payroll department that controlled paycheck errors, and my W-2's are/were accessed via the MAG i-pay system.

JO exercises control over MAPD, when 7-bar was charging $4.50/gal for gas he called up the chief instructor and said "whatever you do don't buy gas from 7-bar!". We ferried a/c to Aztec and Durango for 2 months before another FBO opened up on the field...(good for us CFI's because I got to fly the planes quite a bit!).

~wheelsup

 

[Mr_Creepy]

Ok so it was just rumot. MAPD is still part of MAG.

Maybe it was the FBO that was sold.

 

[EDUC8-or]

I've had some bad luck with deadheads on Mesa lately and my sister had to spend 2 nights at IAD because of MX and crew problems on VFR days. I understand issues pop up, but I've had 22 hour layovers in some pretty decent places get turned into 10-12 hour layovers. This happened about 5 times in the last 3 months. I always like to get out and see some live music and the rest of the town, but no deal because I got in so late.

My sister came to visit from Amsterdam and her connecting flight in IAD was cancelled last week because of MX. The UAL gate agent said all other flights were full as well as other airline flights to CLT. I pulled up flights (there were plenty of seats) and my sister put me on the phone with the agent and she argued with me for about 20 minutes. By the time we were done the Airways flight was boarding accross the airport and there was no way they could make it. On the way back home there were no FO's available so the flight left late. I was at the airport and just asked the agent to rebook for the next day because there was no way for them to make the connection in IAD, but the agent wouldn't go for it so they spent another night at a crappy hotel. I understand the gate agents were UAL employees, but this just stinks.

I'll be on the ramp in CLT and hear Air Shuttle call inbound and ramp will ask for their "on time" time. Sometimes the flight is 30-60 minutes late, but will still get on time because of this practice. We have ACARS so we don't fudge our times.

I also know Mesa will run a flight at 2am with no PAX on board just to get the completion numbers. I had the fortune of deadheading on a flight at 2am when it should have been 10pm. We had to delay our flight the next morning due to crew rest issues, and that goes as a crew delay when it really wasn't our fault. By the way, we (our crew) were the only passengers on board.

I'm not bashing any Mesa pilots personally, I have some good friends who are great people there. I just don't jive with the practices of the place and if I can avoid riding on them I will. I guess airlines will sacrafice quality for a cheap product.

 

[wheelsup]

I also know Mesa will run a flight at 2am with no PAX on board just to get the completion numbers.

I believe this is the fault of US Air. They consider a flight "completed" and pay for that flight regardless of when it arrives, as long as it does't cancel. I believe United had a different system, where if it was delayed beyond something like 2 hours it would not be paid for regardless if it went or not (unless it was an uncontrollable thing such as wx delay).