Mesa? Can someone please explain...

[kellwolf]

We get paid 50% of the trip value if a flight cancels. If we volunteer to sit airport reserve, we get 100% or the greater of the two if we get assigned something.

Now, on the "if you don't fly you shouldn't get paid...."

The passengers don't get refunded their tickets if it's a WX cancellation. Most places won't even spring for a hotel if it's the last flight. The FAA says they don't have to if it's out of their control. Now, lets say you work at the Gap in the mall. You just happen to have no customers that day, so now management says they don't have to pay you. Sound right? No. You took time out of whatever else you could have been doing, time away from your family and were counting on the pay to cover things like rent, food and bills. Now you're not going to get it.

 

[zmiller4]

Two people in my class have just been awarded CA! 7/06

I saw that...that's insane. Were they from Mesaba, by any chance? If it was the two I was thinking of, that's awesome. They're great guys and really deserve it after the crap they had to go through.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

Now, lets say you work at the Gap in the mall. You just happen to have no customers that day, so now management says they don't have to pay you. Sound right? No.

Actually, they would probably send you home with no pay and run barebones staff if it is slow.

 

[CFIse]

Probably the only people getting denied jumpseats are from people who really don't understand that the whole "Freedom Air" thing is over, at least as far as I know.

The Freedom 'A' list still exists and I believe some people use that. I'm not saying it's right, just that it is. Most of the current Freedom pilots had nothing to do with the original Freedom problem, and many of the original Freedom pilots aren't at Freedom anymore, so the Freedom badge isn't helping identify them much.

So it's only "over" in the same way the Eastern scabs issue is "over".

 

[CFIse]

I'm not overly concerned about Mesa ruining the industy. They haven't got any major new flying in a while other than their BS Hawaii stuff, and what they have gotten (like the Dash 8 flying out of NYC) it sounds like they've royally <messed> up. Like Bob said in the other thread, low pay doesn't necessarily mean low cost. If everybody hates flying your regional because they cancel flights all the time and lose bags, then they aren't going to fly you very much. I think (hope) Mesa's horrid performance is starting to really change the way people look at them.

With the exception of the JFK mess, Mesa's performance statistics are no worse and no better than any other regionals in comparable markets. You may or may not argue that's an accurate reflection of Mesa's product, but regardless I'm sure that Mesa's customers, the mainline airline, are looking at those numbers and are perfectly happy with them.

With the exception of PHX Mesa doesn't handle bags - so that, like much of the Mesa hating, is bogus.

I don't think Mesa will lose current flying except for the slow ramp down at US Air and the JFK Dash mess. I equally don't think they'll win much new flying anytime soon either.

 

[CFIse]

Training departments will say just about anything to keep new hires around. I was told that upgrade would be about 2-3 years when I started here. I'm approaching year 2 and it is 5.5 years and growing with no growth of any kind in sight. And you want to know the funny thing? They are STILL telling new hires it will be less then 2 years.

Although in this case I'm not sure the training department was lieing. The current junior captains aren't at 1.5 years, but the outflow of pilots from Mesa is currently strong (putting the lie to a previous statement by somebody that other airlines won't hire Mesa pilots), and there's a hiring gap in there at about the 2 year mark that will compress upgrades once they hit that point.

Don't come to Mesa for the quick upgrade, because it could all end in the blink of an eye, but in the next 12 months I wouldn't be stunned to see 1.5 year upgrades at Mesa.

 

[CFIse]

I'll agree the pay is better after year one over at Mesa compared to Pinnacle right now, but they still have some horrendous QOL issues that even we have better. If we're on the ground for more than 5 hours, we can at least get a hotel room to hang out in.

Well I'll go you one better - at Mesa they get a hotel room after 4 hours. So where does this hotel room thing come from?

Well Mesa has what are called "camping trips" that dues to the vagaries of the America West System have what look like CDOs in Vegas in the dark of the night, but the layover is less than 4 hours. Contractually the company is not required to provide a hotel room, but they provide a single room for the crew so they can watch TV, clean up, do whatever the hell they want. If some people want to try to sleep good for them.

So you see how the Mesa hating starts - people who don't understand what's going on start making up stories. You won't find anybody at Mesa on a 4+ hour sit who can't get an individual hotel room.

 

[Seggy]

Well I'll go you one better - at Mesa they get a hotel room after 4 hours. So where does this hotel room thing come from?

Well Mesa has what are called "camping trips" that dues to the vagaries of the America West System have what look like CDOs in Vegas in the dark of the night, but the layover is less than 4 hours. Contractually the company is not required to provide a hotel room, but they provide a single room for the crew so they can watch TV, clean up, do whatever the hell they want. If some people want to try to sleep good for them.

So you see how the Mesa hating starts - people who don't understand what's going on start making up stories. You won't find anybody at Mesa on a 4+ hour sit who can't get an individual hotel room.

CFI, the 'vagaries' that you call of the America West System COULD BE TRUE for the American West Pilot's schedules. But in their contract they have provisions and good work rules in place that allow for them NOT to have these camping trips that you guys have over at Mesa.




The FAA has to step in and better regulate some of the FARs that are out there. They are laughable at best when it come to commercial flight operations.

 

[Aviator737]

Do you think the Mesa Pilot Development program in New Mexico contributes at all to the flak Mesa gets? That would be unfair, of course (what with only a minority of their pilots coming from the program). But MAPD has proven to be a bit controversial on the forums here - or perhaps that's just in the Internet world?

 

[CFIse]

CFI, the 'vagaries' that you call of the America West System COULD BE TRUE for the American West Pilot's schedules. But in their contract they have provisions and good work rules in place that allow for them NOT to have these camping trips that you guys have over at Mesa.

The FAA has to step in and better regulate some of the FARs that are out there. They are laughable at best when it come to commercial flight operations.

So you would seriously argue that any other regional flying for America West would not have these camping trips? How many of YOUR contracts would prohibit a 12 hour duty day with a 3.5 hour sit in it at 2:00AM? Think yours does, I'm betting it doesn't.

 

[CFIse]

Do you think the Mesa Pilot Development program in New Mexico contributes at all to the flak Mesa gets? That would be unfair, of course (what with only a minority of their pilots coming from the program). But MAPD has proven to be a bit controversial on the forums here - or perhaps that's just in the Internet world?

I'm no expert - but from where I sit I don't see the difference between MAPD, Comair Academy, the ATP hiring program and all the rest of the "get in a shiny jet wth minimal time" programs out there. People don't like Mesa, so by association they don't like MAPD or PACE. I don't see the difference myself, but obviously some people think they do.

I'm not arguing Mesa is the greatest regional in the USA because, well I couldn't, not without choking to death in laughter. All I am arguing is that Mesa haters on forums like this, who don't really know why they hate Mesa, but it's fashionable to do so, take information and distort it, or just outright make things up that aren't true.

I like it at Mesa - there you go - now you can tell your friends you've met a happy pilot at Mesa - they'll be astonished! Now all the Mesa haters can make up reasons WHY I like it at Mesa, and I bet you a dollar to a dime they're all wrong.

 

[Louie1975]

Can anyone explain to me why the Dash operation at JFK doesn't seems to be working out? And do they have a special departure procedure for them?

 

[H46Bubba]

Can anyone explain to me why the Dash operation at JFK doesn't seems to be working out? And do they have a special departure procedure for them?

They're the oldest piece of #### Dashes around! They are all Q100's. 810LR is SN 003 off the production line. They are slow, they are maintenance hogs, and parts are very difficult to come by. Mesa had to move a lot of parts from stock in PHX, DEN and GJT as well as go out and buy a lot of parts from vendors that piece parted a/c. It was doomed fromt he get go and had a very rough start with a lot of broke aircraft with some serious mx down time due to parts availablity. They had to move some ERJ's from MCO to cover the flights. Freedom is also competeing against other regionals who are operating 50 seat RJ's on the same routes.