Merger between US Airways and America West.

I second what Doug said...look at what happened with the TWA/AA debacle. TWA people are still losing their jobs over that one years after the fact. They ended up on the bottom of AA's seniority list, or screwed up in it somehow.
 
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TWA people are still losing their jobs over that one years after the fact. They ended up on the bottom of AA's seniority list, or screwed up in it somehow.

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Yes, they got hosed seniority wise, something AA is well known for. But remember the TWA employees, especially union leaders, were begging congress to approve the merger as the best shot to save their jobs. A merger often is a rescue of employees and assets that aren't otherwise viable. I'm sure there are plenty of pilots from airlines like Braniff that would have welcomed, in hindsight, the chance to have a seniority list fight.

I'd have to lay the loss of TWA jobs to an industry downturn of historic proportions that followed not long after the merger. And BTW the hosing of TWA pilots was some poetic justice given what they did to Ozark pilots during that merger.
 
Would it really be that difficult in a merger to look at length of service and merge the seniority lists on that basis? Geez - all you'd have to do is hit the sort button on a spreadsheet package!!!
 
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Would it really be that difficult in a merger to look at length of service and merge the seniority lists on that basis? Geez - all you'd have to do is hit the sort button on a spreadsheet package!!!

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Like I said earlier, it looks pretty simple and scientific from the outside, but it's much more complex.

If you merge the seniority lists based upon length of service, you're going to have most of America West's employees on the street almost overnight. The most junior ---->FO<--- at USAir has what, 12 to 15 years of seniority? America West has a significantly more junior seniority list.

Also, with a seniority list merger, you're going to have a few thousand twice-furloughed USAir pilots with recall rights to the new airline, further displacing if not furloughing America West employees.
 
Flyover,

I'm not saying it wasn't poetic justice, or it was deserved or not, just pointing out the history of one merger and the resulting calamity.

I'm sure, in this messed up industry, there are no airlines who have merged who didn't screw the guys/gals on the bottom of the food chain royally. The only people who make out are the ones with the golden parachutes (and they get that for running companies into the ground
banghead.gif
). One of these decades, maybe, just maybe there will be a CEO at an airline with an ounce of common snese and brainpower. All you management types keep this in mind as you ascend the ladder!

TX
 
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The most junior ---->FO<--- at USAir has what, 12 to 15 years of seniority?


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I think it's more like 17-18 years....seriously
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.

~wheelsup
 
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One of these decades, maybe, just maybe there will be a CEO at an airline with an ounce of common snese and brainpower. All you management types keep this in mind as you ascend the ladder!

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You're kidding right? If you are so anti-management that you can't think of some CEOs in the last few decades that had an quite a bit more than an ounce of common sense, then I don't know what to say. Herb Kelleher tops the list. Crandall. Some of the regional guys who took 2 airplane operations and built huge operations. Bethune. Harris has a good track record wherever he's gone. And of course some of the originals were innovative thinkers, giants that built this industry from scratch. The fact that the industry in toto is down right now doesn't diminish all that went before.
 
People keep on blaming the CEos, but the CEOs don't act alone. All of management has to be willing to change to make difference.
 
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People keep on blaming the CEos, but the CEOs don't act alone. All of management has to be willing to change to make difference.

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Never worked for Disney, have ya?
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Powerful CEOs tend to be surrounded by "yes men" that cower in a corner for fear of being fired. Not saying that a lot of the airline CEOs are that powerful, at least not anymore.
 
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People keep on blaming the CEos, but the CEOs don't act alone. All of management has to be willing to change to make difference.

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I just don't understand exactly what aspect of management has to change. By that I mean that any managers who had done the things necessary to be viable in today's enviornment would not have kept his job. He would have had to be slow growth and concentrated on a clean balance sheet in the 90s while somehow defending his turf against the competition. He would have had to be ruthless on cost, mainly labor, during profitable times which would have made him the "dumbest" CEO according to labor. Or he would have had to abandon traditional legacy type operations in favor of SWA style operations, something I don't think anyone could have pulled off.
 
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I wouldn't wish a merger on even my worst enemies.

Looks fine and dandy on the outside looking in, but working at an airline which is a result of acquisitions, mergers and such, there are wounds that never heal.

Then you'll hear some yahoos say "Yeah, but you have a job!" -- we've got Pan Am pilots who are still pissed off.

Mergers generally do not benefit the average employees, but it's really much more of a benefit for the board of directors and upper management.

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I'm not saying mergers are a cup of tea, but they sure as heck beat liquidation. Which I guess makes me one of those yahoos.
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Reuters has reported that the merger will be announced this afternoon after the close of trading of all stocks, and that there will be no after hours trading of HP stock.

Apparently it will start as a "marketing" alliance and will display itself in stages as a complete merger.

But according to all sources it is a done deal.

For the seniority record, the most junior US Airways pilot has a 1987 seniority date. The most SENIOR America West pilot has a 1983 seniority date. Ouch...
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Then add this to the equation. GE is the player with the biggest stack right now in this consolidation game:

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There is already speculation that a marriage of America West and US Airways will remove planes from U.S. airspace. General Electric (GE:NYSE - commentary - research), which has a large aircraft leasing unit, is a key creditor for both carriers. The Wall Street Journal has reported GE wants to use the merger as an opportunity to pull about 60 planes and deploy them elsewhere. The aircraft lease market is strong right now, notably in Asia, where airlines are scrambling to keep up with rising passenger demand.

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link
 
Methinks there are going to be a few long hot summers in PHX...
 
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Then add this to the equation. GE is the player with the biggest stack right now in this consolidation game:

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There is already speculation that a marriage of America West and US Airways will remove planes from U.S. airspace. General Electric (GE:NYSE - commentary - research), which has a large aircraft leasing unit, is a key creditor for both carriers. The Wall Street Journal has reported GE wants to use the merger as an opportunity to pull about 60 planes and deploy them elsewhere. The aircraft lease market is strong right now, notably in Asia, where airlines are scrambling to keep up with rising passenger demand.

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link

[/ QUOTE ]I think i'll start putting some more $$ into my GE stock! haha
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From what I've read on the issue, the merger was started by America West. They had previously looked at a merger with ATA, but decided that one wouldn't work. If America West management takes a controlling stance (which they more than likely will) I think this could be a good move. HP has done well the past couple of years, and they have a lot more experience in the LCC model than US Air. The reason they are keeping the US Airways name is for marketing purposes. The merger still has a lot of hoops to jump through before it's final. Plus, Airbus now has a vested interest in the carrier surviving due to A350 orders.
 
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For the seniority record, the most junior US Airways pilot has a 1987 seniority date. The most SENIOR America West pilot has a 1983 seniority date. Ouch...
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Negative re: the Airways folks. Maybe the most junior currently not furloughed is a 1987 hire, but Airways hired as recently as 1999 and 2000. Those pilots are currently at Home Depot, and will be getting rather excited with this news.
 
We had a USAir jumpseater a few months ago who was a A330 FO who was about to quit to work as a contractor.
 
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