Mental Refreshment

womanpilot73 said:
It's clearly not based on "pure skill" since he doesn't have dispatching experience. Best guess as someone else pointed out is that he's an internal hire. And good for him... It's a great opportunity! We should all be congratulating him!

Needing experience as an external hire isn't a "silly misconception" as you stated above. It's a requirement, as you'll see if you get your license and start applying for jobs. Most airline's application process will automatically boot your application if you don't meet their experience requirement.

Unless you are an internal hire already holding a potential upcoming position with American, I'd plan on paying your dues like the majority of us. If you get on with American or any other major by the end of the year, I'll personally buy you a congratulatory beer. But first, you must get a license. Figure out those weight and balance calculations yet?
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That last half of your last paragraph cracked me up. I'll split the tab with you.


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womanpilot73 said:
Unless you are an internal hire already holding a potential upcoming position with American, I'd plan on paying your dues like the majority of us. If you get on with American or any other major by the end of the year, I'll personally buy you a congratulatory beer. But first, you must get a license. Figure out those weight and balance calculations yet?
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This is correct. When or if we hire this year or next, the class we have will be one with experience either externally or internally. We will likely empty the regionals and internals with licenses before we would consider hiring externals without any company or dispatch experience.
 
Seems every department in AA's IOC has 3-4 people who have recently got their certificate or are getting ready to get it. It's always possible to get a job with no experience if those doing the interview and research on the individual thinks you are a good person who can get along and are trainable.
 
F9DXER said:
Remember - even though an internal candidate may not have dispatch experience, they have something that is readily available that an external candidate can't easily provide. That is the company knows who this person is. Their work history, attitude, and personality are the 3 most obvious ones. The most knowledgable dispatcher in the world will not get hired anywhere if any of those 3 components are lacking in any aspect.

I lost out to internal candidates for several job openings. I may not have agreed with it at that time but it makes one look in the mirror and learn what one can do better.
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I have a hard time buying this. With the connections that exist between hiring managers and HR types at various airlines, they can get a good feel on a candidate externally as well as they do an internal.

The bigger issue and one every dispatcher who has or is not at the top level should have is those with zero dx experience bypassing them to a career gig with benefits that those of us with time in the field are worth. I ask again, no major is going to hire a pilot without more than the required number of hours, right? Legality or not an amount of time in 121 dispatch should be a hard requirement for what we consider the top echelon dx positions.

If your sitting around one of those places in another position and want to benefit from being a dispatcher, then just don't get your license, start climbing the ladder at a regional, second tier cargo line, ULCC, ad hoc operator. Your not earasing anything else you've done and your making experience in dispatch. When you apply to the major, there not going to hold your previous experience there against you and your dx experience will show you seriously want to be there in that capacity and have the experience to do the job better.

So my message is if your at a dx career airline working ramp or tracking pilots, etc. And want to make a transition to dx remember there is a long line of us with time in the trade gunning for that position, if you want it too, you can best your chance by joining us and putting your time in for it. You may not need as much time in dx for it, but your paying your dues and getting the experience that matters in landing the career dx spot.
 
Delta Echo said:
I have a hard time buying this. With the connections that exist between hiring managers and HR types at various airlines, they can get a good feel on a candidate externally as well as they do an internal. The bigger issue and one every dispatcher who has or is not at the top level should have is those with zero dx experience bypassing them to a career gig with benefits that those of us with time in the field are worth. I ask again, no major is going to hire a pilot without more than the required number of hours, right? Legality or not an amount of time in 121 dispatch should be a hard requirement for what we consider the top echelon dx positions. If your sitting around one of those places in another position and want to benefit from being a dispatcher, then just don't get your license, start climbing the ladder at a regional, second tier cargo line, ULCC, ad hoc operator. Your not earasing anything else you've done and your making experience in dispatch. When you apply to the major, there not going to hold your previous experience there against you and your dx experience will show you seriously want to be there in that capacity and have the experience to do the job better. So my message is if your at a dx career airline working ramp or tracking pilots, etc. And want to make a transition to dx remember there is a long line of us with time in the trade gunning for that position, if you want it too, you can best your chance by joining us and putting your time in for it. You may not need as much time in dx for it, but your paying your dues and getting the experience that matters in landing the career dx spot.
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It simply doesn't work this way for dispatch though. There is no hard rule (e.g.1500 hour requirement) for dispatchers. The only requirement is that one holds a valid FAA license. The rest is up to the individual airline.

I understand where you are coming from, but also understand a company transferring someone who has devoted years to their airline in another capacity by rewarding them with a lateral move. From a company's standpoint, I can see how they would find value in time in service as well as known work ethic, history, attitude, aptitude, etc... over someone they've never met.

It doesn't make someone who's paid their dues at a regional and/or supplemental any less valuable but it just comes down to the company's prerogative.

Also, in some cases, if an airline does hire internally, it doesn't make sense for someone to quit and get a job at a regional. They will likely take a big pay cut but also lose out on years invested and how that relates to retirement, benefits, etc... I have a friend who is staying at a certain major for this reason exactly. He was hired into dispatch as an internal hire with no dispatching experience and trained. If he'd left, he'd have lost out on seniority and certain lifetime benefits when retiring.
 
womanpilot73 said:
It simply doesn't work this way for dispatch though. There is no hard rule (e.g.1500 hour requirement) for dispatchers. The only requirement is that one holds a valid FAA license. The rest is up to the individual airline.

I understand where you are coming from, but also understand a company transferring someone who has devoted years to their airline in another capacity by rewarding them with a lateral move. From a company's standpoint, I can see how they would find value in time in service as well as known work ethic, history, attitude, aptitude, etc... over someone they've never met.

It doesn't make someone who's paid their dues at a regional and/or supplemental any less valuable but it just comes down to the company's prerogative.

Also, in some cases, if an airline does hire internally, it doesn't make sense for someone to quit and get a job at a regional. They will likely take a big pay cut but also lose out on years invested and how that relates to retirement, benefits, etc... I have a friend who is staying at a certain major for this reason exactly. He was hired into dispatch as an internal hire with no dispatching experience and trained. If he'd left, he'd have lost out on seniority and certain lifetime benefits when retiring.
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I have very little sympathy for someone that has zero 121 dx experience that bypasses someone with 121 dx experience to a gig at major. Doing something outside of dx at a major doesn't fill the need to have experience. Period. As far as worrying about retirement, if that or a paycut it is the concern, then maybe they should stay at what their doing. I don't see any sympathy from those that play the bypass game to those working at a lesser place for dx experience.

There should be hard time requirements for dx, just like pilots. It would ensure those looking to move up have the experience to do the job for the level of compensation offered. It would also end majors hiring someone with zero experience simply because they have been there. A major is not nor should be a trianing ground for someone that has zero dx experience.

I suppose the other option would be to give all 121 dx the pay, schedules, work rules, etc. The majors have. No one with experience is getting shortchanged and what airline one dispatches at is more a choice of were one wants to live. But in a real world, how likely would this be to accomplish? Thus, if you want your dx experience to pay off, you have to pay your dx dues.
 
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Delta Echo said:
I have no sympathy for someone that has zero 121 dx experience that bypasses someone with 121 dx experience to a gig at major. Doing something outside of dx at a major doesn't fill the need to have experience. Period. As far as worrying about retirement, if that or a paycut it is the concern, then maybe they should stay at what their doing. I don't see any sympathy from those that play the bypass game to those working at a lesser place for dx experience. There should be hard time requirements for dx, just like pilots. It would ensure those looking to move up have the experience to do the job for the level of compensation offered. It would also end majors hiring someone with zero experience simply because they have been there. A major is not nor should be a trianing ground for someone that has zero dx experience. I suppose the other option would be to give all 121 dx the pay, schedules, work rules, etc. The majors have. No one with experience is getting shortchanged and what airline one dispatches at is more a choice of were one wants to live. But in a real world, how likely would this be to accomplish? Thus, if you want your dx experience to pay off, you have to pay your dx dues.
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I guess I'm confused by your point here. I'm not sure why anyone would have "sympathy" for someone who landed a career dispatch gig at their airline by way of a lateral move. There's no sympathy to be had; nothing bad happened to them. Quite the opposite actually. It's an absolute gift to land a dispatch job at a major, if that is one's intended goal. I guess I am happy for anyone who succeeds at reaching their goals!

Also, as to your last sentence, clearly that is not true. Perhaps to a major who hires internally, they see it as having "paid their dues" by working for their airline in another capacity, with a proven record and reputation they deem worthy of investing in.

Either way, I understand your feelings on the matter but the rules are what they are. Unless and until that changes, I don't see certain airlines not hiring internals.
 
It's been said repeatedly that there are 2 paths into the world of dispatch. 1. Start with a regional and get enough experience to be picked up by a major. 2. Start at the bottom of a major and hope for your chance to make the transfer. Neither path is foolproof. Some of us go one way, some go the other. There's no real point in complaining about how companies that you have no control over decide to hire dispatchers.
 
Jacob said:
There's no real point in complaining about how companies that you have no control over decide to hire dispatchers.
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Agreed. I'd instead use my energy to put a positive foot forward, make connections and keep the dream alive. Continue striving to reach your goals!
 
Delta Echo said:
I have very little sympathy for someone that has zero 121 dx experience that bypasses someone with 121 dx experience to a gig at major. Doing something outside of dx at a major doesn't fill the need to have experience. Period. As far as worrying about retirement, if that or a paycut it is the concern, then maybe they should stay at what their doing. I don't see any sympathy from those that play the bypass game to those working at a lesser place for dx experience.

There should be hard time requirements for dx, just like pilots. It would ensure those looking to move up have the experience to do the job for the level of compensation offered. It would also end majors hiring someone with zero experience simply because they have been there. A major is not nor should be a trianing ground for someone that has zero dx experience.

I suppose the other option would be to give all 121 dx the pay, schedules, work rules, etc. The majors have. No one with experience is getting shortchanged and what airline one dispatches at is more a choice of were one wants to live. But in a real world, how likely would this be to accomplish? Thus, if you want your dx experience to pay off, you have to pay your dx dues.
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Why are you so mad?
 
And let's be honest... if you've been at a regional for more than a couple of years and have been trying to get out but haven't been able, there must be a reason. Majors are hiring people with less and less experience (some who probably have no business working at a major) but that's besides the point. You should at least be getting interviews.
 
There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding about internal hires. You make several assumptions that are fundamentally I correct.

First is that internal hires haven't "paid their dues". Most every internal hire at WN has put in at least half a decade of service with the company, and many have substantially more. These men and women have shown a commitment to the company that is valuable. Majors want people who are going to stay with the company, who have a positive attitude, who are reliable and who can solve problems. For internals, those questions are already answered.

Second, experience makes a good dispatcher. This is an unreliable benchmark. I've worked with dispatchers with decades of experience who I consider relatively poor dispatchers. I have worked with guys right out of school that are phenomenal. Dispatch is 20% knowledge and 80% common sense, and you cannot teach common sense to a person who has none. I can and have taken people with no previous aviation experience and watched them become excellent dispatchers, and it's all because they are capable of learning and can think logically and creatively.

Anyway, don't assume that because a guy spent 10 years smashing bags and working as agents haven't "paid their dues". They took a much bigger risk then you did.
 
Just to add onto what @pljenkins said, internals at our company have to take the same dispatch test that the externals take. If they pass the test, they get the same interview panel and then hope that they did well enough to make the cut. Internal or External, it comes down to passing the test and interviewing well.....not "paying dues."
 
Not to mention that someone who has been out loading/working/flying the line at any given company is usually a good source of knowledge when it comes to solving problems.
 
Brett Spurgeon said:
Just to add onto what @pljenkins said, internals at our company have to take the same dispatch test that the externals take. If they pass the test, they get the same interview panel and then hope that they did well enough to make the cut. Internal or External, it comes down to passing the test and interviewing well.....not "paying dues."
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Exactly.....you aren't entitled to anything just because you 'pay your dues' at regional airlines. Many internal candidates are just as good as those coming from previous experience if not better like @pljenkins mentioned.
 
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