Media Now Claiming Man Did Not Say Bomb

Theotokos

Theotokos

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Updated: 12:01 PM EST

Alpizar Didn't Say 'Bomb', According to Passengers
By CURT ANDERSON, AP

MIAMI (Dec. 9) - The airline passenger shot to death by federal marshals who said he made a bomb threat was agitated even before boarding and later appeared to be desperate to get off the plane, some fellow travelers said.

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20051207144209990016&ncid=NWS00010000000001



I don't know what to believe. Every time law enforcement shoots some one, media act like the police are evil murderers. I remember here in Louisville a man had a machine gun in a Bob Evan's parking lot. He fired it and cops fired. He was black and some people said he was shot because he was black. When the coroner did the autopsy is showed the man had died from HIS gun. The cops just shot because there were people nearby and they could not see what he was shooting. He was hidden inside a car outside in the parking lot. I just love when people think they know more than trained law enforcment. Maybe he didn't say bomb. Maybe he did. Even if he was metnally ill, it is not the agent's fault. They here bomb, they shoot. They cannot assume maybe he is not serious. And when the guy does have a bomb and the agents do not shoot I can see the headline: Federal Agents Neglect Duty to Protect Public: 200 Dead
 
KevinT said:
alpizar's wife will sue and never have to work again.
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I sure hope not. Whether the man was sick, stupid, or whatever, you CAN NOT do what he did on a plane or in an airport. Especially after 9/11.

Two taps to the body and one to the head for the next guy who does the same thing too. And I hope that no one but the dead guy is found to be at fault.
 
FlyingNole said:
Two taps to the body and one to the head for the next guy who does the same thing too. And I hope that no one but the dead guy is found to be at fault.
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Nice Hollywood cliche' . . .

No need to waste ammo. What's wrong with just one shot?
 
FlyingNole said:
I sure hope not. Whether the man was sick, stupid, or whatever, you CAN NOT do what he did on a plane or in an airport. Especially after 9/11.
:yeahthat:

Having been in law enforcement for several years I know that they are trained to "stop the threat." A man saying he has a bomb and reaching into a bag is a SERIOUS threat. I would have pulled the trigger as well. As for the "two to the chest, one to the head", well if it's needed to stop the threat then do it. Ammo is cheap, peoples lives are not.

And as for the witnesses saying they didn't hear him say he had a bomb, witnesses can be very unreliable especially in this type is situation. All you need is one person to say to the others they didn't hear anything then you get the others wondering what they really heard. For all we know the people saying they didn't hear anything were in the back of the plane and may have just seen the guy run off, if they even saw that.

It's almost like an airplane crash, investigators have months or even years to go over what officers had probably less than a minute to decide a course of action.
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mtsu_av8er said:
Nice Hollywood cliche' . . .

No need to waste ammo. What's wrong with just one shot?
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Two words: body armor.

The 2/1 is the FAM standard.

Any movement on the part of anyone claiming to have a bomb that might result in detonation--such as reaching for a detonator switch--should be immediately met with deadly force. Therefore, if in fact, he did claim to have a bomb, then yeah, the FAMs made the right call. However, there is a long-established precedent within law enforcement of CYA whenever a shoot occurs. Unfortunately, we may never know the truth since cops rarely break ranks and dead men can't talk.
 
KevinT said:
alpizar's wife will sue and never have to work again.
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I sure hope thats not the case. She will sue but I hope she didnt win. 'he didnt take his meds'...so, honestly, wtf? is it the publics responsibility to make sure some joe schmo is taking his meds and if he isnt thats his fault. Also, where was she when he 'wasnt taking his medications'?

I also agree, man running down a plane aisle with a bag and yelling bomb does require deadly action.
 
PGT said:
I sure hope thats not the case. She will sue but I hope she didnt win. 'he didnt take his meds'...so, honestly, wtf? is it the publics responsibility to make sure some joe schmo is taking his meds and if he isnt thats his fault. Also, where was she when he 'wasnt taking his medications'?

I also agree, man running down a plane aisle with a bag and yelling bomb does require deadly action.
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:yeahthat:
 
PGT said:
I also agree, man running down a plane aisle with a bag and yelling bomb does require deadly action.
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This is where the FAMs' and passengers' stories differ. From what I've read thus far, none of the passengers remember him yelling "bomb" or anything similar. If this is the case, does a man running down a plane aisle with a bag require deadly action? Probably not, and that's what she's sue (and win) over.
 
Didn't the shooting occur in the jetbridge?

I think we need to gather ALL the facts before the FAM is to be criticized. Sure, I bet lots of passengers didn't hear the word bomb, they may not have been in a location on the plane or in proximity to the event to hear it. Also, witness accounts of the exact same situation can vary WIDELY. Show 100 people the same scene, and they'll all remember it slightly differently.

I want to hear ALL the accounts of ALL the witnesses.

I really doubt a FAM would be trigger happy, and be so quick to de-cloak unless he felt a REAL threat. Not that I'm defending him no matter what, we'll see what the investigation finds, but those FAMs are given a LOT of training.

As in anything aviation-related, the rumots start flying and it quickly becomes like an old game of "telephone", where you sit in a big circle and the first person whispers a story in the next person's ear and by the time the story makes it back to the original teller it bears NO resemblance to what the original story was.
 
I do not think mental illness is a premise for the arguement that he should not have been shot. Now that does not mean I support executing the mentally ill, but perhaps it could have been his mental illness that would lead him to actually detonate a bomb. There was not bomb, but what IF his problem actually caused him to make a bomb and blow himself up. When one relizes within it a few second the whole plane may be dead, they have a duty to act. I just thank God the guy was not black because then the liberals would be making a huge thing out of it, saying the agents were racist or somthing.
 
mtsu_av8er said:
Nice Hollywood cliche' . . .

No need to waste ammo. What's wrong with just one shot?
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Because unlike Hollywood, people just don't fall down dead the instant they are shot. Unless you are lucky and get a good hit on the central nervous system (brain or spine) you usually have to wait for the bad guy to bleed out before he expires. This can take quite some time. Even if you shoot a person in the heart, they can have up to 20 seconds of fight left in them.

A classic example is the 1986 gun battle in Miami, FL during which Platt and Matix killed 2 FBI agents and wounded 5 more. Platt, who did almost all of the damage, received a mortal wound that went through his right arm and lung in the initial stages of the battle. Before he died he still managed to kill the 2 agents and seriously injure 2 more while being shot multiple times.

The FAMs carry .357 Sigs which are more than adequate as a law enforcement cartridge, but they are not a death ray. If there is a threat, you shoot and keep shooting until it stops.
 
ananoman said:
The FAMs carry .357 Sigs which are more than adequate as a law enforcement cartridge, but they are not a death ray. If there is a threat, you shoot and keep shooting until it stops.
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Eh, the effectiveness of .357 is pretty debatable. .40 S&W or 45ACP would be better in my book.

I wonder which rounds they carry, gold dots, hydrashocks, or something entirely different.
 
Trust me, you can say "we'll be landing at 12:30pm" five times over the course of the flight, the flight attendants will still call the cockpit and inform you that passengers are wondering what time we'll be landing.

From what I know, unless there is a clear and present danger, FAMs aren't going to expose themselves. In fact, you can have a very high level disgruntled passenger problem and they will not 'activate' unless there is a high-level terroristic threat. And if there's a high-level terroristic threat on one of my aircraft, I'd love an army of 50 of them! :)

From my experience with them, the're not cowboy-like gunslingers ready to spring into action. I'm fully giving the FAM's the benefit of doubt. Especially since people act crazy, storm off airplanes while parked at the terminal, far more than people think.
 
well, I don't get the impression any of the FAM's are unexperienced in law enforcement.

What amazes me is their ability to ride around on an airplane all day and still stay alert, I'd go bonkers.
 
So, yet again, people are arguging with a Marine about how to kill somebody? Does anyone else find that comical?
 
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