Mazzie Flying Service
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PhotoPilot
New Member
Yeah, Harlow and Larry are both awesome. On the other hand, neither give anything away - you have to earn their approval and respect. They're very fair but hold high standards. If you passed, you must have done well!
Congrats again!
Congrats again!
subpilot
Squawking 7600
Just a little update. I went back up to Seattle the morning after my CFI checkride to visit family and friends for about 10 days. I got back to Fresno last Monday and began my CFII training. Yesterday I was offered a job instructing at Mazzei and I start next week. So it looks like I will be in Fres-NO a bit longer than I first expected.
S.T.Aviator
Well-Known Member
Fresno looks great!!
Hi guys, I checked out Mazzie yesterday and spoke to jimmy for about 30 mins. WOW.....Seems like an amazing place to learn to fly , as well as teach.
Question for all you Fresnonians, how hot does it really get down there in the summer??
Hi guys, I checked out Mazzie yesterday and spoke to jimmy for about 30 mins. WOW.....Seems like an amazing place to learn to fly , as well as teach.
Question for all you Fresnonians, how hot does it really get down there in the summer??
S.T.Aviator
Well-Known Member
How do you like the Tomohawk? What does it cruise at? Is it IFR equiped?
PhotoPilot
New Member
You spoke with Jimmy?? As in the owner?
Anyway, Fresno gets HOT! Way hotter than I like - afternoon temps break 100 more often than not. But it's perfectly survivable. Aside from the heat in the summer and the morning fog in the winter, the weather is awesome for flight training.
The Tommies are great little planes. They're slow (95 - 105 KTAS at best power cruise) but they handle great and are really fun to fly. When I was there, the Mazzei PA-38s were mostly IFR equiped, but didn't have glideslope, ADF, or DME and most of the instrument training was done in the Archers or the Seminoles.
With 20/20 hindsight, a few years of flying, and a good career, I'm still thrilled with my experience there.
Anyway, Fresno gets HOT! Way hotter than I like - afternoon temps break 100 more often than not. But it's perfectly survivable. Aside from the heat in the summer and the morning fog in the winter, the weather is awesome for flight training.
The Tommies are great little planes. They're slow (95 - 105 KTAS at best power cruise) but they handle great and are really fun to fly. When I was there, the Mazzei PA-38s were mostly IFR equiped, but didn't have glideslope, ADF, or DME and most of the instrument training was done in the Archers or the Seminoles.
With 20/20 hindsight, a few years of flying, and a good career, I'm still thrilled with my experience there.
S.T.Aviator
Well-Known Member
Is Mazzie's "Attitude Flying" all that different?
I noticed that Mazzie and a school in Chicago called API stress
attitude flying. Is this really a whole lot different than the techniques
used by every other school in the country, or is it just a marketing ploy.
If this technique is all it's cracked out to be, aer'nt there any books or videos/dvd's on this technique?
P.S. By the way Photo Pilot it was Jerry I spoke to not Jimmy. Sorry bout the mix up.
I noticed that Mazzie and a school in Chicago called API stress
attitude flying. Is this really a whole lot different than the techniques
used by every other school in the country, or is it just a marketing ploy.
If this technique is all it's cracked out to be, aer'nt there any books or videos/dvd's on this technique?
P.S. By the way Photo Pilot it was Jerry I spoke to not Jimmy. Sorry bout the mix up.
jdflight
Well-Known Member
It's a more refined way of teaching what many people attempt to teach, but not everyone subscribes to. The latest version of the Airplane Flying Handbook was the first version to really emphasize it. It's not a marketing ploy, and it's everything it's cracked up to be.
subpilot
Squawking 7600
jdflight said:
I agree 100%. I have now flown with some students who earned there private certificate at other schools and then transfered to Mazzei's to get there instrument and commercial. One of them spent about 5 hrs getting familiar with attitude flying. He was all over the place with altitude and airspeed control at first before I showed him the technique for attitude control flying. And for the landings... I had this student tell me after two lessons that "attitude flying sure is a different method and it actually seems to be more precise." He was especially suprised on the level of accuracy with our technique for short field landings.
PhotoPilot
New Member
I'm in complete agreement with the comments above. It isn't a marketing ploy and it also isn't the end-all-be-all of flying. The 'attitude vs. airspeed' debate rages on and many threads here have been devoted to it's finer points.
However, I have found attitude flying to be much more precise and a much clearer way of communicating airplane control to students. As an example, my previous employer often had me work with students who were having difficulty learning. A quick shift from airspeed methodology to (Mazzeiesque) attitude methodology often gave those students the 'Aha!' moment they needed. Mazzei's difference compared to other attitude flight programs is in the way they teach it. They use educational learning tools that I've never seen or heard of anyone else come even remotely close to. It's just my opinion, but I'm sold.
I started flying about 27 months ago and have already landed my dream job. With 20/20 hindsight, I'd go back to Mazzei again and again.
However, I have found attitude flying to be much more precise and a much clearer way of communicating airplane control to students. As an example, my previous employer often had me work with students who were having difficulty learning. A quick shift from airspeed methodology to (Mazzeiesque) attitude methodology often gave those students the 'Aha!' moment they needed. Mazzei's difference compared to other attitude flight programs is in the way they teach it. They use educational learning tools that I've never seen or heard of anyone else come even remotely close to. It's just my opinion, but I'm sold.
I started flying about 27 months ago and have already landed my dream job. With 20/20 hindsight, I'd go back to Mazzei again and again.
S.T.Aviator
Well-Known Member
Reply
The only thing that is preventing from really going to Mazzie is the
lack of multi time and the lack of a gauranteed CFI job. I really like Mazzie's philosophies and the straight up attitude but, what's the point
of all that if I can't instruct once I graduate. So far looks like Ari Ben is
my first choice for these reasons.
Any comments on the pros and cons of my decision would be appreciated.
The only thing that is preventing from really going to Mazzie is the
lack of multi time and the lack of a gauranteed CFI job. I really like Mazzie's philosophies and the straight up attitude but, what's the point
of all that if I can't instruct once I graduate. So far looks like Ari Ben is
my first choice for these reasons.
Any comments on the pros and cons of my decision would be appreciated.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
"lack of a gauranteed CFI job"
Promising someone a CFI job is a marketing ploy. How do you know they will be in business when you finish. What if they don't need CFI's when you finish. What if you piss someone off and they decide not to hire you? What if you bend a little metal and they decide not to hire you? Fail a checkride?
There are no guarantees in this business and that's the way it should be. One the other hand, if you're not noticing the CFI jobs and the number of CFI's at this site that will be moving on, you're not paying attention.
I'd try to go to a school that has a good mix between quality and cost. I like Mazzie because of a friend that went there and other things said at this board. Other places are probably just as good. It's okay to shop for a CFI school based on hoping to get a job there, nothing wrong with that. But shopping based on a guarantee is misplaced, if you ask me. CFI jobs aren't that hard to find.
Promising someone a CFI job is a marketing ploy. How do you know they will be in business when you finish. What if they don't need CFI's when you finish. What if you piss someone off and they decide not to hire you? What if you bend a little metal and they decide not to hire you? Fail a checkride?
There are no guarantees in this business and that's the way it should be. One the other hand, if you're not noticing the CFI jobs and the number of CFI's at this site that will be moving on, you're not paying attention.
I'd try to go to a school that has a good mix between quality and cost. I like Mazzie because of a friend that went there and other things said at this board. Other places are probably just as good. It's okay to shop for a CFI school based on hoping to get a job there, nothing wrong with that. But shopping based on a guarantee is misplaced, if you ask me. CFI jobs aren't that hard to find.
jdflight
Well-Known Member
I walked out of my MEI training at Mazzei with 50 hours multi. Once I instructed there, I had no problem getting the required minimums for an airline. Listen to Don, here. Anyone guaranteeing you a CFI job on graduation is blowing smoke. If you do well at Mazzei and get along with the folks, you'll likely get hired. Yes, they only hire their best students. That's part of what makes them better than most schools. I've also answered the phone there and had chiefs from other schools ask me if we had any CFI candidates we weren't going to hire, simply because they were so impressed with the ones they'd had in the past.
S.T.Aviator
Well-Known Member
Reply
Thanks for the comments. You guys bring up some very valid points.
I got to tell you, my gut feeling is to go with Mazzie. I have yet to read one bad thing about the school. On the other hand my other choice has a lot of
negative comments.
Would you guys be able to fill me in on the housing the school provides.
I understand you have to share a room with another student. How did that work out for yal? How is the instructor pay at the school and do they get paid
for ground briefings as well? I would expect to spend at least 2 yrs in Fresno(Hopefully instructing), what is the quality of life in this town.
Does the school have PC ifr sims for student practice(Elite,ASA).
Thanks for the help
Much appreciated
Thanks for the comments. You guys bring up some very valid points.
I got to tell you, my gut feeling is to go with Mazzie. I have yet to read one bad thing about the school. On the other hand my other choice has a lot of
negative comments.
Would you guys be able to fill me in on the housing the school provides.
I understand you have to share a room with another student. How did that work out for yal? How is the instructor pay at the school and do they get paid
for ground briefings as well? I would expect to spend at least 2 yrs in Fresno(Hopefully instructing), what is the quality of life in this town.
Does the school have PC ifr sims for student practice(Elite,ASA).
Thanks for the help
Much appreciated
PhotoPilot
New Member
Guaranteed flight instructor jobs? When I was looking at flight schools, all I could think of was how crappy it would be to get a lousy instructor who only got the gig because he shelled out a bunch of cash and was promised a job in return. Schools who hold high standards and produce excellent pilots usually don't promise you a job at the end of your training but will snatch you up in a heartbeat if you're good. Both JD and I got jobs at Mazzei, as did a number of other folks we trained with. If the instructor didn't get a job . . . then you probably didn't want them teaching you anyway.
The housing was good, but my wife and I upgraded to a private 1-bedroom apartment. JD can tell you more about being a roomie with other Mazzei students. The pay was normal for the industry and you're compensated for flight, sim, pre-, post-, and ground sessions. When I was there, there was one computer with Jeppesen FlitePro that was free to use and a Frasca 142 that you had to pay for as a student.
Fresno was an okay place: 1.5+ hours to the mountains, 2.5+ hours to the coast. I'm a midwestern boy, so I left 1 year to the day after starting with zero time. That included having worked as a flight instructor for almost 5 months and building about 550 hours TT. If I'd stayed, I would have had plenty of opportunities to get multi time. As it was, I had no trouble finding a job at another flight school in another part of the country.
The housing was good, but my wife and I upgraded to a private 1-bedroom apartment. JD can tell you more about being a roomie with other Mazzei students. The pay was normal for the industry and you're compensated for flight, sim, pre-, post-, and ground sessions. When I was there, there was one computer with Jeppesen FlitePro that was free to use and a Frasca 142 that you had to pay for as a student.
Fresno was an okay place: 1.5+ hours to the mountains, 2.5+ hours to the coast. I'm a midwestern boy, so I left 1 year to the day after starting with zero time. That included having worked as a flight instructor for almost 5 months and building about 550 hours TT. If I'd stayed, I would have had plenty of opportunities to get multi time. As it was, I had no trouble finding a job at another flight school in another part of the country.
subpilot
Squawking 7600
S.T.Aviator said:
I almost went to Ari-Ben and I am so,so,so,so glad that I did not.
s.t.aviator said:
I think you can pay extra for your own room. You can also live out in town and get reimbursed since the room is part of the package price. I saved $1400 on my training cost because I provided my own housing.
s.t.aviator said:
Starts at $10, then goes up to a max of $20. You could expect to be at $18-20 after one year as a CFI. This pay is low for starting out but the good thing is that they throw more students at you than you can handle. I have already turned down new students because I already have 4 full-time students. You get paid for everything billable to the student, so yes on pre and post and yes on ground.
s.t.aviator said:
Not my favorite town but it is not aweful.
The good is mild winters, zero traffic, and VFR flying everyday from March to November.
The bad is HOT AS HELL summers, THICK AS HELL FOG in the winter, and lots of grafitti and crime in the area. The fog usually burns off by noon so you still get hours in the winter. I am getting about 4 flight hours per day right now in the thick of fog season.
s.t.aviator said:
Yes, they have a PC trainer, free of charge, for IFR training. They also have a FRASCA 142 for IFR training.
Trust me that Mazzei will not be a mistake. If you are motivated, pleasant to be around, and above average with your piloting skills (Mazzei standards will make you above average) then you should have no problem getting offered a job to instruct. This school is growing very rapidly and is in need of more instructors. The problem is that they do not hire from outside so they have to wait for good candidates to get through the Mazzei pipeline. Mazzei also has started a 135 charter operation and instructors are hired on to fly charter once they meet 135 IFR requirements.
As a current student at Mazzei, and as someone who has looked at and actually traveled to visit Ari Ben, I can honestly say Mazzei was the right choice.
It's price is very competitive, and includes virtually everything you will need from books to housing and examiner fees, the housing is quite nice in my opinion and Fresno isn't that bad. It may be hot or foggy, but no hurricanes, which last year would have caused you to loose two months of training, and as for the crime, well, I haven't heard too many good thing about Fort Pierce either...
More importantly, the aircraft are very well maintained, and the quality and standard of instruction is as good as that of any big academy, with emphasis on personal ground lessons as well as flight instruction. You will be a lot more knowledgeable than someone who just read the gleim prep, got 95 on his written and then learned the gouge for the oral exam, you will really know he material.
The prof. course gives you 50h of multi time, and the instructors here have no problem getting a whole lot more multi time, so that should not be a problem. The point I think should be emphasized is that you get quality time and instruction. When you build time cheaply, it still comes at a price, not necessarily a monetary one.
I also strongly believe in the attitude method they use here, and although I haven't flown with anyone who has learned the more traditional method, it still puzzles me why someone would complicate things by trying to control your speed with pitch and your altitude with power. I just seems a lot more difficult than just flying the airplane.
It took me 5.5 months from 0 to my COM/ME with a few delays, so apparently the school does what it is supposed to do, and I feel that I made the best choice.
And don't get me wrong, Ari Ben seems nice, regardless of what was written in some recent posts, and was my second choice, but Mazzei just felt like the right place to go and has lived up to my expectations and beyond.
It's price is very competitive, and includes virtually everything you will need from books to housing and examiner fees, the housing is quite nice in my opinion and Fresno isn't that bad. It may be hot or foggy, but no hurricanes, which last year would have caused you to loose two months of training, and as for the crime, well, I haven't heard too many good thing about Fort Pierce either...
More importantly, the aircraft are very well maintained, and the quality and standard of instruction is as good as that of any big academy, with emphasis on personal ground lessons as well as flight instruction. You will be a lot more knowledgeable than someone who just read the gleim prep, got 95 on his written and then learned the gouge for the oral exam, you will really know he material.
The prof. course gives you 50h of multi time, and the instructors here have no problem getting a whole lot more multi time, so that should not be a problem. The point I think should be emphasized is that you get quality time and instruction. When you build time cheaply, it still comes at a price, not necessarily a monetary one.
I also strongly believe in the attitude method they use here, and although I haven't flown with anyone who has learned the more traditional method, it still puzzles me why someone would complicate things by trying to control your speed with pitch and your altitude with power. I just seems a lot more difficult than just flying the airplane.
It took me 5.5 months from 0 to my COM/ME with a few delays, so apparently the school does what it is supposed to do, and I feel that I made the best choice.
And don't get me wrong, Ari Ben seems nice, regardless of what was written in some recent posts, and was my second choice, but Mazzei just felt like the right place to go and has lived up to my expectations and beyond.
S.T.Aviator
Well-Known Member
Reply
Thanks to everyone for replying to my questions. Daniel , I read your previous posts and commend you on the time and effort put into finding the right school. It seems that all former and current students have one thing in common, and that is the satisfaction with the school and the training they recieved. This really helps in my decision making, but as Daniel has done, I will visit Mazzie in March and hopefully see all of this for myself.
Take Care Guys
Thanks to everyone for replying to my questions. Daniel , I read your previous posts and commend you on the time and effort put into finding the right school. It seems that all former and current students have one thing in common, and that is the satisfaction with the school and the training they recieved. This really helps in my decision making, but as Daniel has done, I will visit Mazzie in March and hopefully see all of this for myself.
Take Care Guys
S.T.Aviator
Well-Known Member
Hey Subpilot, how's the instructing going?