Martinaire down in MI
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skypilot6
Well-Known Member
Vans with Boots suck, the plane is just too slow, and A lot of area for the ice to stick too. TKS is AWESOME in the Van, keeps the plane clean, you MIGHT lose 2 kts when using it as long as you turn it on before you get in the ice, or as soon so you start icing up. Ive flown both in the ice and TKS is the only way to go in the Van, The boots are downright scary compared to others ive flow with boots in ice.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
I'd listen to the guys who have flown vans. I somehow dodged that step on the freightladder. But from what I understand, they have the wetted area of a small barn and not a whole lot of power to get them out of trouble when that barn gets covered in ice. I will sort-of-second what skypilot6 said about TKS...it was MUCH better on a 210 than the boots, but that's a different, MUCH slicker airplane (who ever thought that a 210 would be MUCH slicker than another FIKI airplane???)
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
RIP.....
I was in unforecast icing in a Van over the North Atlantic. I was getting the plane to SA so it wasn't equipped with either boots or TKS. It picked up so much ice, I picked up the camera!
It slowed down but climbed well and handled just fine. However, it was during the day, I saw it on the plane and I had the time and airspace to get out of the ice. Night in icing is a whole different ball game.
I was in unforecast icing in a Van over the North Atlantic. I was getting the plane to SA so it wasn't equipped with either boots or TKS. It picked up so much ice, I picked up the camera!
It slowed down but climbed well and handled just fine. However, it was during the day, I saw it on the plane and I had the time and airspace to get out of the ice. Night in icing is a whole different ball game.
Capt. Chaos
Well-Known Member
More power is a much better advantage than TKS, the boots work well when your able to push the power lever forward and get 150+kts in straight and level, and there is excess power to carry everything stuck to the non protected surfaces. I had one freezing rain encounter this winter and having 950hp turned it into a non event.
He crashed about a mile west of the airport after a refueling and taking on freight, so I wonder: Could ice bring down an aircraft that quickly, assuming that he was clean when he took off?
Here's the link to another story which includes a Google Maps aerial and estimation of the crash site: http://www.petoskeynews.com/news/fe...n-pellston-kills-one-20130116,0,3623992.story
Here's the link to another story which includes a Google Maps aerial and estimation of the crash site: http://www.petoskeynews.com/news/fe...n-pellston-kills-one-20130116,0,3623992.story
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
IMHO, yes, it can. I hit serious freezing rain out of KSGF in a 210 one morning, years ago. I'm pretty sure that if I had not had TKS, in the very best case scenario, I'd have been running back to the runway fast as I could, and likely landed at ref and 20 in a full stall.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
The caravan is dragy enough without any ice, and 600 hp isn't very many ponies.
It will handle "normal" ice that pilots typically pick up in the clouds just fine. The boots buy you time to get out of the ice, that is all they were ever designed to do.
Freezing rain can bring down anything with wings. The Caravan is NOT certified to take off in any type of freezing precip, which is made very clear in training.
It will handle "normal" ice that pilots typically pick up in the clouds just fine. The boots buy you time to get out of the ice, that is all they were ever designed to do.
Freezing rain can bring down anything with wings. The Caravan is NOT certified to take off in any type of freezing precip, which is made very clear in training.
z987k
Well-Known Member
I agree. I had similar experiences in the pa31 where an MRA van and an Empire Van had both diverted and were trying to get to the ground asap, when I'm just chugging along, just another day.
Also, if it involves the engine, well you know my stance on that as well.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
The design of the tail and struts doesn't exactly help either. That size surface attracts ice like a magnent it seems.
I hit a brief spot of freezing rain on short final one morning. In it a very, very short time, I had a nice thin covering of ice on the airframe.
dvtpilot
Well-Known Member
Ice is in the Van is not so much fun here in the Midwest. We are running the 675hp version and it still loses a ton of speed in the ice. Like USMC said, flying in freezing rain is a no-go. We departed the other day and picked up some unreported/unforecast rime in the climb...that got us at around 8700 lbs TOW ~110kts, 400-500fpm at max torque and prop.
So, great plane for warm places.
So, great plane for warm places.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
I always thought the planes we operated were very good at handling ice. I felt very confident in the Chieftain and the 99 when it came to handling ice.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
99 is a Hawse in ice. The best thing I can say about it. Don't ask me about anything else, you won't like the answers.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
On the high setting I never ever had ice accumulate on the wings or prop. The cowl was a different story though...
Did you ever fly the Baron with TKS? That wasn't as good I thought. I felt the TKS strips weren't in the right spot on the main wings and it always seemed like one prop would be clear and the other decided not to come to work that night.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
I talked to an Airnet guy quite a bit about it and it seems like getting ice off the protected areas wasn't as much of an issue as the ice sticking to the unprotected areas. The cowl, spinner, last part of the wing and all the crap hanging off of the thing(door handles, radome, ect.). It was a drag issue, especially on the older ones with no power. Considering the Van and 99 are about the same size, I'm not surprised the van has issues. The 99's final trick up it's sleeve is power.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Agreed entirely, somehow forgot to mention that. Esp. agree about where the strips were. I can't remember, all these years later, which way they were off, but it seemed like they were either too high or low on the wing, so you'd still get some accumulation either above or below the strips. Worked well on the 210, though.
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