Mandatory retirement age now to 65?

Aside from the back and forth argument, let me pose a serious question: If upgrades at the regionals slow, how long are most people willing to stay? I know people don't get into it for the money, but from the airlinepilotcentral website, it looks like most regional copilots max out in the mid 30s before taxes. Unless I meet a 'sugar momma' who was pulling in some major cash, I think it would get old fast. By now I'm seriously considering getting to a regional, flying for a few years to enjoy the time off and travel bennies while getting a masters, and then getting out (or maybe an elusive corp. gig) Before people come back with the whole "cyclical" thing, remember that the recent hiring at the regionals was mostly more jobs due to more smaller aircraft + more frequency replacing the big boys.
 
777forever said:
With this age 65 ruling and how the baby boomers will continue to screw the younger generation I am seriously thinking about jumping ship and getting the heck out of the US if I get a good job offer. I hear China and India are massively expanding. Emirates has some issues but its probably better than any of the US passenger airlines right now. The only major US companies I would work for is UPS or Fedex. Otherwise Im outta here before all hell breaks loose, if it hasnt already.
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Have fun working with those guys man. The flight school that I teach at has had many international students from all over that area the past year and I have flown with a bunch of them. It's scary how they somehow manage to obtain a license. The crazier thing is that these guys get their multi commercial ticket at 250 TT then go back to their country and instantly go into 737 training.

You are right about hiring over there though; one of the first international students that we had here is now flying 747's.
 
FlyOrDie said:
Is that a serious question?

Did you not read the last 6 pages?
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It was a response to the first page . . .now I have read most of the reponses containing some of the most infantile, childish and selfish responses ever on this website. I have seen a few that were well thought out but most of this is just crybaby stuff.

Bob is right, this rule was put in place as a political move to get rid of the older pilots to deprive them of the pay they would earn at the peak of their career.

Doug is right in that health costs and disability will increase, along with other issues that we can't even see yet.

Ultimately folks I think it comes down to what is right. It is not fair to make people who are capable and talented stop working just because of an arbitrary number. I am 45 years old and I work for a regional airline. Personally, I would not want to slow down the hiring at the Majors should I want to make the jump. But I haven't earned the spot yet, it is not mine to claim, nor is it yours yet. (If it is, now you can choose when you want to go . . . at least until 65). Although I am glad that I now will be able to do twenty years in this business rather than just the fifteen I was expecting, but I would have been happy with the fifteen.

I am just saying please try to see the world from a perspective other than just shortsighted selfishness.
 
I just want to know if the ruling is offcial. Or if the FAA is just *considering* repealing the age old law?

I have read numerous articles in the past few days saying that it's a done deal, a wrap. While others claim that the FAA is just strongly considering changing the law.

I.E. it's not law yet. So which is it?
 
I think some people are over reacting. I am no where close to being an expert on this field. How ever, I think it is completely irrational for you to consider going overseas over it. Many pilots will want to retire prior to 65. Whether they are 60,62, or 65, many pilots will be retiring in the next ten years.

This doesn't change anything for me. I am going to continue to work as hard towards my goals and the job opportunities will take care of its self. I am not going to worry about things I can not control.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
I just want to know if the ruling is offcial. Or if the FAA is just *considering* repealing the age old law?

I have read numerous articles in the past few days saying that it's a done deal, a wrap. While others claim that the FAA is just strongly considering changing the law.

I.E. it's not law yet. So which is it?
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Those that say it's a done deal are using a figure of speech, implying their opinion that the proposal will become the rule. An NPRM - Notice of Proposed Rulemaking is a "heads up" that the rule will likely change, with notice to receive information that might change their mind. To cite the press release, the Administrator "announced that the FAA will propose to raise the mandatory retirement age for U.S. commercial pilots from 60 to 65."

NPRMs do not always result in rule changes. An NPRM was issued to change oxygen use requirements for operations above FL250, and it looked like the rule would change. On the last day of the comment period, the NTSB objected, and the rule change did not occur.

If sufficient data is presented to the FAA that persuades them the rule change is not safe, we may see no change in the Regulated Age (the "Retirement" age used in the Press Release is a misnomer used to appease the uneducated public). I believe it is unlikely that sufficient data will be compiled, so predict the rule will change. The only questions then would be regarding how it will be implemented. Will the new limit apply immediately? Will it be implemented in a graduated fashion? How will it affect a pilot whose 60th birthday occurred the day before the rule became effective? How about the pilot who turned 60 a year before? 2 years before? There are many questions left to be answered, but the answer to the first question, "Will the rule change?", is almost a certainty. It "will" change.






.
 
If the glass is half full, that might be an extra 5 years at the higher pay scales if, sorry, when I make it. Just do not expect me to admit my age to any lovely flight attends.
 
Flysher said:
Wow. Can someone explain to this (me) freight puke why the age 65 rule is so earth shattering that someone would consider leaving the US?
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Because half the people who have posted on this thread are drama queens. Many of whom aren't even IN the industry. I've never been on the airliners.net forums, but this thread is exactly what I envision based on what everyone says about them. A select few people with good insight, and a bunch of bozos with zero experience, harping the loudest.

I don't feel sorry for any of you wannabes that are crying about this. If you are halfway through your $90k zero-to-mesa hero program, or you are paying to operate the bleeds in a 1900 or whatever, then you are getting what you deserve. Like Doug has always said, it's not about the destination, it's about the journey (or something like that). So if you went to some $hithole company and agreed to work for pennies, hoping to be there for a year and then be at CAL or whatever the following year, well... sucks to be you but I don't feel bad for you either. I'm pretty sure that those of us who are fairly happy where we are, aren't really going to lose a ton of sleep over this. I know I'm not.

If you can't "roll with the punches" then you don't belong even remotely associated with this industry anyways. IMO, this is small potatoes compared to some other things that are going on, could be going on, or will go on. It's good for some people, bad for others. That's life. Quit being so dramatic.
 
ESF...you da man.

Personally, I see both sides of the age 60 argument and see it as a wash, overall. That leaves me neutral. Sorta don't really care, to be honest. No big deal. I won't be workin' past 60, anyhow. That's 14 years away.
 
DE727UPS said:
ESF...you da man.

Personally, I see both sides of the age 60 argument and see it as a wash, overall. That leaves me neutral. Sorta don't really care, to be honest. No big deal. I won't be workin' past 60, anyhow. That's 14 years away.
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Are you 46 bro? You look about 25, MAX.
 
Derek_S said:
Have fun working with those guys man. The flight school that I teach at has had many international students from all over that area the past year and I have flown with a bunch of them. It's scary how they somehow manage to obtain a license. The crazier thing is that these guys get their multi commercial ticket at 250 TT then go back to their country and instantly go into 737 training.

You are right about hiring over there though; one of the first international students that we had here is now flying 747's.
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I can't speak for every airline, but I can speak for Emirates. Our cadets are very good. They do their training through Multi-Commercial in Australia then come back to the UAE. Once back they go through a minimum of 28 full flight simulator sessions on the type aricraft they will fly. That is about 112 hours of instruction split equally between pilot flying and pilot not flying. Then they fly a minimum of 80 sectors line training. With an average sector length of around 4 hours. This process is over one year long and is quite intensive. Their entire training is targeted to airline flying, while they are wet behind the ears they are certainly capable of performing a good job as a First Officer.

Many pilots will want to retire prior to 65. Whether they are 60,62, or 65, many pilots will be retiring in the next ten years.
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Exactly.

The change is inevitable because it is in line with the rest of the world. Many pilots will still try to retire earlier than 65 because the lifestyle does get a little more difficult as you age. Many pilots can't make it to 60 to begin with, just look at the top of any seniority list to see the number of guys out on long term medical.


Typhoonpilot
 
I gotta say...the confusion never ends. Some background info here...I am an FE in the Air Force with 14 years of service. In mid 2001, I was looking at punching out in order to start playing the commercial flying game. Well, 9/11 happened, and the writing was on the wall. So, I stayed in. Now, retirement is 6 years away and again the regionals are hiring like mad. I figured that I needed to hang around long enough to get a retirement check from day 1 so that I could survive the ups and downs of commercial flying. My Grandad was a pilot for Eastern and after many, many years giving to the industry, he got squat. I have been involved in aviation my entire life (at least as long as I can remember) and understand that when you get in this game, the rules NEVER stay the same. I am just hope that in 6 years, things will be as good as they are now...if we could only see into the future. Maybe all those current 59 year olds will be out...
 
I now feel much better about this situation. Talked to a retired Delta Captain and he said this is not going going to effect the hiring trends at all. Few pilots make it to 60 let alone 65 for medical or early retirement reasons.
 
I can't speak for every airline, but I can speak for Emirates. Our cadets are very good. They do their training through Multi-Commercial in Australia then come back to the UAE. Once back they go through a minimum of 28 full flight simulator sessions on the type aricraft they will fly. That is about 112 hours of instruction split equally between pilot flying and pilot not flying. Then they fly a minimum of 80 sectors line training. With an average sector length of around 4 hours. This process is over one year long and is quite intensive. Their entire training is targeted to airline flying, while they are wet behind the ears they are certainly capable of performing a good job as a First Officer.
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Well that makes me feel a little better then. I can't speak for every airline I guess.
 
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