Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 crash was deliberate, aviation experts suggest

Oxman

Well-Known Member
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...eliberate-aviation-experts-suggest/ar-AAxfn5d

An investigation by an Australian TV news program suggests the pilot of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, which disappeared with 239 people aboard more than four years ago, deliberately crashed into the Indian Ocean.
Investigators are still searching for the aircraft, but these findings raise the possibility that one of the greatest aviation mysteries in modern history may not have been a catastrophic accident, but instead a possible mass murder-suicide.
"60 Minutes Australia" brought together an international group of aviation experts who say that the disappearance of MH370 was a criminal act by veteran pilot Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah.
"He was killing himself; unfortunately, he was killing everybody else on board, and he did it deliberately," said Canadian Air crash investigator Larry Vance.
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© Provided by CBS Interactive Inc. A panel of aviation experts and air crash investigators discusses the mystery of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.
Boeing 777 pilot and instructor Simon Hardy reconstructed the flight plan based on military radar, and says Captain Shah flew along the border of Malaysia and Thailand, crossing in and out of each country's airspace to avoid detection.
"It did the job," Hardy said, "because we know, as a fact, that the military did not come and intercept the aircraft."
Hardy also made a strange discovery: Captain Shah likely dipped the plane's wing over Penang, his hometown.
"Somebody was looking out the window," he suggested.
"Why did he want to look outside Penang?" asked reporter Tara Brown.
"It might be a long, emotional goodbye -- or a short, emotional goodbye," Hardy replied.
Two experts from the "60 Minutes Australia" investigation also disagreed with the Australian Transport Safety Bureau's scenario of the "death dive" with no one in control.
"I think someone was controlling the aircraft until the end," said Hardy.
They argue instead that Captain Shah flew Flight MH370 another 115 miles than originally thought. "This was a mission by one of the crew to hide the aircraft as far away from civilization as possible," Hardy said. "Which puts us way outside the search area that is currently being done."
The wreckage uncovered so far may be further evidence that the pilot actually had control and that it was not a high speed crash. As Larry Vance noted of one wing component recovered from the shore of Africa, "The front of it would be pressed in and hollow. The water would invade inside and it would just explode from the inside. So this piece would not even exist."
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©
Provided by CBS Interactive Inc. Larry Vance and reporter Tara Brown with a wing component recovered from the vanished MH370.
"They are very compelling," aviation analyst Henry Harteveldt, president of Atmosphere Research Group, told CBS News' Kris Van Cleave. "What I find very compelling is the hypothesis that the pilot did this deliberately, and did one of the most heinous acts in modern commercial aviation."
CBS News spoke to multiple family members of the MH370 victims, and some say that this is nothing new and that without forensic evidence, they will not be convinced.
Captain Shah's family tells CBS News that "pointing a finger toward him does not make them expert investigators – they have to find the plane."
Malaysia Airlines has not yet responded to our requests for comment.
To watch the full "60 Minutes Australia" report, "MH370: The Situation Room," click on the video player below.
 
So he committed mass murder suicide by controlled soft ditching?
What's soft to you is hardcore to most. Youve been desensitized by the internet.

/Aside
Is jynxyjoe making jokes on a serious thread supposing murder of more than 200 people? I mean, would he be that callous? And is that a softporn reference?
/End aside

I don't get to work softcore into many jokes, this was big for me.

/Aside
I bet he hates dogs too!
/End aside
 
Who are these aviation experts? My favorite is when they have no 121 experience at all, but then they're on television telling me and the rest of the public how it is...
 
Who are these aviation experts? My favorite is when they have no 121 experience at all, but then they're on television telling me and the rest of the public how it is...

Eh, I don't think you have to know how to fly a plane to put the pieces together that they did in support of this hypothesis. Unless there's some operational data that only a qualified pilot would be able to interpret.

I know you guys like to protect your own, but the probability of the aircraft flying a route in between air spaces like it did is probably the most compelling data point in support of this idea.
 
Eh, I don't think you have to know how to fly a plane to put the pieces together that they did in support of this hypothesis. Unless there's some operational data that only a qualified pilot would be able to interpret.

I know you guys like to protect your own, but the probability of the aircraft flying a route in between air spaces like it did is probably the most compelling data point in support of this idea.
This guy flew airplanes and then went home to relax by flying simulator airplanes on triple panel screens and full on yoke/ pedals set up.

This was not one of our guys.
 
What's soft to you is hardcore to most. Youve been desensitized by the internet.

/Aside
Is jynxyjoe making jokes on a serious thread supposing murder of more than 200 people? I mean, would he be that callous? And is that a softporn reference?
/End aside

I don't get to work softcore into many jokes, this was big for me.

/Aside
I bet he hates dogs too!
/End aside

How DARE you insinuate that I hate dogs?

But uh, that's the only rebuttal I can come up with, because reasons.
 
This guy flew airplanes and then went home to relax by flying simulator airplanes on triple panel screens and full on yoke/ pedals set up.

This was not one of our guys.
I still don't see the problem with having a flight sim at home. The media's attempt to skew that towards "this guy was practicing to kill everyone!!!" was comical. Nothing wrong with guys who enjoy the flight sim world, just like guys who enjoy flying Cessna 150's on their day off. All of us have a different passion in the aviation world. The sim world is quite large and sophisticated at that too.
 
I still don't see the problem with having a flight sim at home. The media's attempt to skew that towards "this guy was practicing to kill everyone!!!" was comical. Nothing wrong with guys who enjoy the flight sim world, just like guys who enjoy flying Cessna 150's on their day off. All of us have a different passion in the aviation world. The sim world is quite large and sophisticated at that too.
Alright maybe I'm being judgy.

No. No I'm not. Computers are for Half Life and that is all.
 
I particularly like how they can't provide a motive for suicide other than he had a pretty elaborate flight sim set up in his home.
 
The problem with going down a path like this as an investigator, is drawing hard conclusions from very small or circumstantial evidence. Item A being in existance, doesn't necessarily directly make conclusion D true, when there's no item B or C (to date). Could this have been as they are trying to allege? It could. Just as it could be another potential cause that as of yet, canot be concluded withiut any physical evidence. This accident goes under the same file where other missing aircraft in the NTSB database go: missing/unknown, where it comes to causal factors and conclusions. Thats how the file stays barring new information/evidence that arises.

Here in TUS, there was a Piper Lance that went missing on a flight from KCRQ to Texas in 1984. Nothing was ever found despite an expansive search in California and parts of Arizona. The aircraft was finally found 13 years later in 1997, 1 day to the exact day of going missing, by hikers, crashed into the Rincon mountains at the 7,500' level about 15 miles east of KTUS. 4 skeletons onboard, about $50,000 in decomposed cash, and a .45 pistol were in the wreckage.

The original missing aircraft report in the NTSB files, listed as "missing/unknown", detailed what was known about the flight and what search efforts had taken place. That report was amended following the aircraft having been found, reflecting the fatal nature and what was found.

Going back to the suicide theory, again one needs to have some actual physical evidence, because that kind of speculation can grow a life of its own (intended or unintended) with theories and suppositions, and there is no defense for a dead man. This was seen done by the US Navy during the investigation of the 1989 explosion of the 16" gun turret #2 on the USS Iowa, which killed 47 sailors. A singular Gunners Mate, one of the 47 killed, was initially blamed for the whole thing as a murder/suicide, despite there being zero evidence of that being the case, and based only on some very loose supposition; even though where his body was located in the burned-up turret, there was no way he could have done what the Navy alleged he had done anyway. It took many years of effort by family and frinds to get the investigation off this track of supposition and to get his name cleared, and to get the Navy to acknowlege that.

Just an example of the importance of being extremely cautious with the bridge between theory and actual fact/conclusion during any investigation, and being very judicious with what crosses that bridge.
 
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Alright maybe I'm being judgy.

No. No I'm not. Computers are for Half Life and that is all.

If you’re going to be judgy, judge @ChasenSFO . He has an insanely detailed flight sim set up.

I am one of those guys that grew up playing flight sim. Now I do the real deal, and I rarely play flight sim, but I do enjoy playing flight sim on my days off on rare occasion. I enjoy aviation on and off the clock. I have other hobbies too, but aviation outside of work is also one of my hobbies.
 
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