Majors Differences?

FSIPILOT

FSIPILOT

Well-Known Member
With major airlines starting to hire again and trends pointing for this to continue, I for one am pretty excited.

Question for those already in the big show is, where is the ‘best’ place to be? From the eyes of those in the day in day out operations what airline has the best remaining all round package for most probable security, time to upgrade, over all treatment of pilots and expectations of improvement? Also how could company cultures among the legacies be categorized?
 
Great question, very difficult to answer. Most guys only ever see one major so it would be difficult to get good comparisons from a single individual.

When I started on this road people looked at Fedex or Flying Tigers as a last resort, UPS didn't even exist as an airline then. Now Fedex and UPS seem to be top picks for pay and stability. Once you start flying international the night part of "night freight" isn't an issue.

SWA and other small LCC type airlines were also well down the list. They were much more regional in nature back then. Today they are a good option and provide a lot of variety in the flying.

where is the ‘best’ place to be?
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The best answer to this is: The place that still exists when you retire.

For that reason alone I would look at Fedex and UPS as the top two choices. They also pay the best; have the best schedules; most variety; and most potential to keep your marriage intact ( no flight attendants ).

If you wanted to go the route of Passenger airlines then AA is probably the most secure. They did a lot of their hiring in the 1984-1991 time frame. Once those guys start retiring there will be good movement. Pay is low, but should come up and they do seem to be holdng on to their pensions for now. Good variety of flying as well.

TP
 
I would have to say FedEx over UPS, and not just because I work there. Overall, the upgrade time has been significantly higher, the route structure more extensive, the amount of day domestic flying a lot higher and the treatment of the pilots in a thousand small ways is better (much different corporate culture).

FedEx is still an airline with trucks, UPS is still a trucking company with airplanes.

Both are good places to be in this industry, and this is not meant to be a slight against UPS pilots, whom I believe are among the best I've ever had the pleasure of knowing and working with.
 
"FedEx is still an airline with trucks, UPS is still a trucking company with airplanes"

I think there is a positive element to this statement when it comes to stability and profitability. I'm not sure where Seagull is going with this being a comment towards not going to UPS. I do believe that UPS is run like a trucking company and pilots are treated better at Fedex. Maybe that's his point.

In any case, it's all sort of a moot point cause you're gonna go to whichever one offers you a job first. I mean, it's dumb to say "I'm gonna work only for Fedex" cause you might end up bypassing 10 good jobs and never even get an interview. Besides, with timing and networking being what it is, how many guys have interviews or class dates at both Fedex and UPS at the same time? I'm guessing not very many....
 
Back in the day, UAL was #1 with big jets, phat cash, fast upgrades and the best bases (in my opinion) which made it to the top Doug Taylor "Hot Pix for 1996"

If I had passed up Southernjets Innanashnul to wait for UAL, there's no guarantee they were eventually going to call.

The "place to be" is in a constant state of flux.
 
typhoonpilot said:
For that reason alone I would look at Fedex and UPS as the top two choices. They also pay the best; have the best schedules; most variety; and most potential to keep your marriage intact ( no flight attendants ).
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Don't FedEx and UPS have some very long trips? Time away from home is often a factor that is more of a strain on marriages than those homewrecking flight attendants. :mad:
 
I know a guy who left NWA for UAL, then was furloughed. Had he never left NWA, wouldn't of gotten furloughed.

Another family friend went to US Air instead of the startup UPS. He's still got a job (he's so senior at US Air if he were furloughed the Company would've had to liquidate) but had he gone to UPS he'd be making more money with a crazy pension waiting for him.

Life's full of choices, and they're all educated gambles (guesstimates in the words of my 3rd grade math teacher :D).
 
Educated gambles. Sweet. I'm going to use that because it's really true!
 
MQAAord said:
Don't FedEx and UPS have some very long trips? Time away from home is often a factor that is more of a strain on marriages than those homewrecking flight attendants. :mad:
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Yeah... I'd say the individual husband and wife probably have a lot more to do with divorce than FAs, trips, or other outside influences...
 
ChinookDriver said:
Yeah... I'd say the individual husband and wife probably have a lot more to do with divorce than FAs, trips, or other outside influences...
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So true. Also, if you work for UPS and or FedEx your schedule is a week on week off. So the way I look at it, yeah you're gone for a week, but you're also home with the wife a whole week. Sounds good to me!
 
mattp1803 said:
So true. Also, if you work for UPS and or FedEx your schedule is a week on week off. So the way I look at it, yeah you're gone for a week, but you're also home with the wife a whole week. Sounds good to me!
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Everyone is different. Not every spouse can handle that much time apart.
 
MQAAord said:
Don't FedEx and UPS have some very long trips? Time away from home is often a factor that is more of a strain on marriages than those homewrecking flight attendants. :mad:
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We do have long trips, but we also have a lot of short ones. We have pilots that live in base and just fly afternoon or AM out and backs, no layover, home every day (and it's not that many days, total, as it is fairly productive).

On the other end, we have pilots that live in an outstation and bid to layover at home. A couple moms with kids have done that. Every other week they left their home at 10pm and were home by 5am, kids only knew that dad got them to school part of the time.

I have brought wives and sig others out for some of our good layovers, weekends in HNL or in P.R., etc.

The long trips are a mixed bag, as you really get in the swing of things, either way. I don't think it was the long trips that gave me marital problems, and I think my ex wife (s) would agree with that!

It is nice to have the option to fly just out and backs one month, or go around the World and have 16 days off in a row the next, even without using any vacation! Of course, when you're working, you are REALLY working, but it allows a wide variety of choices that most can find a place in.
 
DE727UPS said:
"FedEx is still an airline with trucks, UPS is still a trucking company with airplanes"

I think there is a positive element to this statement when it comes to stability and profitability. I'm not sure where Seagull is going with this being a comment towards not going to UPS. I do believe that UPS is run like a trucking company and pilots are treated better at Fedex. Maybe that's his point.

In any case, it's all sort of a moot point cause you're gonna go to whichever one offers you a job first. I mean, it's dumb to say "I'm gonna work only for Fedex" cause you might end up bypassing 10 good jobs and never even get an interview. Besides, with timing and networking being what it is, how many guys have interviews or class dates at both Fedex and UPS at the same time? I'm guessing not very many....
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You pretty much caught the meaning. The initial question included a number of factors, and (for reasons that are totally beyond me) the UPS ugrade time has been fairly slow, relatively, as well.
 
Thanks everyone for a day in your shoes so to speak. I read over some very good points, one that sticks with me was that its true that most likely someone is going to sign up with the first major who gives them the chance. I’m sure this is not the norm, but who doesn’t like a story to the contrary? A long time friend of mine in the last several months interviewed/simed and was offered a job by a US legacy airline and turned it down for an expected class date with a foreign carrier. A real roll of the dice in my opinion to turn down something now for something expected considering how fast things in aviation were told to expect can simply incinerate. So far its looking like it was a wise decision for his personal taste.

Not saying that passenger demand isn’t increasing as well, but I’ve read reports of steady and significant cargo increase demand expectations well into the next twenty years. I’ve had a beer or two with pilots from both Fedex and UPS and they were some of the most satisfied and content pilots I’ve met in the last ten years of hounding other pilots for their experiences. As far as compensation is concerned, they’re also leading the pack. You know it occurred to me why that might be. I could be completely out of line, and this is just a shot in the dark. Is the level of compensation simply a factor of revenue collected, or is it more aligned with contract agreements? With seat prices slashed for consumers seemingly solely price oriented is Fedex/UPS simply getting more cash for renting the same square footage?

Would it be fair to say within all of the majors that QOL in regards to ability of setting up schedules for consecutive days off, long hauls and out and backs (granted as seniority allows) is relatively the same? Or do some airlines have significantly more flying to choose from?

As I’ve said previously I believe that most will get on with the first major available. Realizing that being successful means getting the job done correctly sometimes in spite of not caring for who it is your working with. But if the choice exists, I’ve flown at enough places to know the difference between working with people that would be friends outside of work and those that it pains you to smile at. Sometimes it can be as drastic confusing vacation and work and confusing hell and work. Anyone out there care to take a stab generalizing different cultures and average employee attitude impressions of majors?

All opinions appreciated.
 
mattp1803 said:
So true. Also, if you work for UPS and or FedEx your schedule is a week on week off. So the way I look at it, yeah you're gone for a week, but you're also home with the wife a whole week. Sounds good to me!
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Week on week off at FedEx? Since when? Its not always like that unless you specifically bid it....
 
"Is the level of compensation simply a factor of revenue collected, or is it more aligned with contract agreements?"

I'd say it's totally based on what your pilot group can negotiate in a contract but I guess the revenue has to be there, too.

There is a wide variety of flying at UPS/Fedex. Anything from two week long international, to reserve, to week on, week off.
 
I am one of the few who had a determination to work at one place and didn't pursue anywhere else. I got into the airline industry with the intent of being an Anchorage-based Alaska Airlines pilot. It took 7 years at the regional level bouncing around the west coast to get there. During that time I had very good friends head off to UPS, FedEx, AirTran, Southwest, Jetblue. I probably could have gotten jobs at any one of those (probably!), but for me and my wife, none of them (their pay, schedules, benefits) were worth not being where our hearts were set. Sure we had our moments of doubt if we were ever going to make it. Segull, DE, MrIVC, Ophir, aloft, all heard my rantings and ravings about staying put at Skywest and the move not worth it, etc. But here we are; the good Lord saw fit to fulfill our dreams!

Life is great! One month of reserve (it was GREAT! I flew four days during the entire month of Jan.) now I've gotten lines for Feb and Mar. I fly a mixture of one and two day trips with 3-4 days off between. That's perfect for us- not gone for too long, but not at home long enough for my wife and I to get annoyed with each other.

For us, our lifestyle and family life is more important than who I work for and how much money we make. Not to say that the distinguished gentlemen of this discussion are in it for the wrong reasons, but Alaska was our goal and we stuck to it. Anything else for us was unacceptable. I'm, sure we could have had a good life in Chicago with Southwest, but there would have been that constant nagging to go home! We never would have felt settled.
 
I have a saying for my monthly neighborhood poker game which I believe is apropos here; "the worm always turns!"

Nobody looking at the industry 20 years ago could have foreseen where it ended up; Eastern, Braniff, Pan Am, TWA, Piedmont (the real one!), America West, Midway - merged or gone; United, USAir, Delta, Northwest - in or just out of bankruptcy. 20 years ago UPS didn't really have planes and FedEx, Airborne and DHL looked just OK; Airtran, JetBlue, Spirit, Frontier (the new one!) didn't exist; Southwest chugged along but who wanted to fly 737's 6 legs-a-day the rest of their career?

Everything has changed for the "majors." So, the question you have to ask yourself is, [movie quote]"Do I feel Lucky?"

"Well, do ya, punk?" [/movie quote]

Kevin
 
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