Mainline- Airline Pilot Demand

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

6 figure income doesn't buy as much as some think.

This. I find it interesting that people talked of a six-figure income being a big deal when I was a little kid, but here we are 25 year later, money is worth about half what it was then, and people are still talking like a six-figure income is a big deal. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly better money than most people make in this country, but it definitely ain't what it used to be.

 

[HVYMETALDRVR]

What happens in ten weeks at Bragg?

Civil Affairs MOS training at JFK Special Warfare Center although its actually 9.5, the other half was Indoc and waiting for class to start.

@tbsanto jump school is Benning, haven't been to that one yet.

 

[falconvalley]

This. I find it interesting that people talked of a six-figure income being a big deal when I was a little kid, but here we are 25 year later, money is worth about half what it was then, and people are still talking like a six-figure income is a big deal. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly better money than most people make in this country, but it definitely ain't what it used to be.

6 figures can be very comfortable for two parents and two kids. That said, I'm surprised it took you so long to comment, being peeps were throwing around the ole "anything mainline trumps great QOL" argument. I'm in agreement that it's safer to go to the ticket seller but I don't think I'd be 100% foaming at the mouth to go sit reserve Thurs-Mon in Oakland, even for 100k+, unless I was looking at getting better than that in a reasonable amount of time. I think you're a good example of that.

 

[derg]

I probably shouldn't have been specific in my post. Allegiant and Jetblue are both fine places that I would be happy to work at. But when your tafb is less than 1200 hours a year and you drive to work it's really hard to commute to jfk or some 20 crew fly by night domicile in Florida for the same amount of money. As for myself I'd be willing to go anywhere that has a domicile I could live in and has some stability. But if history is any guide airline stability is short term at best. Just a little bit of age 70 mixed with some more mainline outsourcing of narrow bodies and the govt "opening up the skies" to lower consumer costs and there won't be anything left of that stable major airline job.

Good lord, if the US goes "Open Skies", we're toast.

We cannot compete with state-sponsored airlines. At all. And we're one of the last markets predominated by airlines that don't have a significant amount of money coming in from a central government.

 

[Ian_J]

Civil Affairs MOS training at JFK Special Warfare Center although its actually 9.5, the other half was Indoc and waiting for class to start.

Ah! Wouldn't have guessed that one in a million years.

 

[chrisreedrules]

Good lord, if the US goes "Open Skies", we're toast.

We cannot compete with state-sponsored airlines. At all. And we're one of the last markets predominated by airlines that don't have a significant amount of money coming in from a central government.

If that ever happens I'm going 135 or just getting out. I'll find another job and fly for fun.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

6 figures can be very comfortable for two parents and two kids.

Your definition of "very comfortable" must be very different than mine. I'm "very comfortable," but I'm also single with no kids and no college debt. Add any of those to the equation, and the comfort level goes down appreciably.

That said, I'm surprised it took you so long to comment, being peeps were throwing around the ole "anything mainline trumps great QOL" argument. I'm in agreement that it's safer to go to the ticket seller but I don't think I'd be 100% foaming at the mouth to go sit reserve Thurs-Mon in Oakland, even for 100k+, unless I was looking at getting better than that in a reasonable amount of time. I think you're a good example of that.

Frankly, my opinions on this have gone back and forth, which you could probably find if you did a search on my posts for the past several years. Currently, though, my opinion tends to lean towards the side of those who say to get the hell out of the regionals. The mainline managements have launched an all-out jihad against their regional feed, and no one is safe. Prospects for a decent career at a regional are next to nonexistent. Even if your carrier is still around in 10 years, the likelihood of the QOL and pay being something decent is incredibly low. The leverage just isn't there right now, and probably won't be, since the mainline carriers continue to shrink their RJ feed and replace it with mainline flying.

That said, I'm not telling everyone to jump on any crappy opportunity that comes along. Obviously, I'm leaving the industry because I don't want to live the lifestyle that you describe of commuting to Oakland and sitting reserve, no matter what the paycheck looks like. But if something decent comes along, don't pass it up because you're waiting for the perfect offer. That comfortable gig at your regional could be gone in six months, no matter how safe it looks now. And then what will you think about how you passed up an opportunity at Spirit because you were waiting for Delta to call?

 

[falconvalley]

Your definition of "very comfortable" must be very different than mine. I'm "very comfortable," but I'm also single with no kids and no college debt. Add any of those to the equation, and the comfort level goes down appreciably.



Frankly, my opinions on this have gone back and forth, which you could probably find if you did a search on my posts for the past several years. Currently, though, my opinion tends to lean towards the side of those who say to get the hell out of the regionals. The mainline managements have launched an all-out jihad against their regional feed, and no one is safe. Prospects for a decent career at a regional are next to nonexistent. Even if your carrier is still around in 10 years, the likelihood of the QOL and pay being something decent is incredibly low. The leverage just isn't there right now, and probably won't be, since the mainline carriers continue to shrink their RJ feed and replace it with mainline flying.

That said, I'm not telling everyone to jump on any crappy opportunity that comes along. Obviously, I'm leaving the industry because I don't want to live the lifestyle that you describe of commuting to Oakland and sitting reserve, no matter what the paycheck looks like. But if something decent comes along, don't pass it up because you're waiting for the perfect offer. That comfortable gig at your regional could be gone in six months, no matter how safe it looks now. And then what will you think about how you passed up an opportunity at Spirit because you were waiting for Delta to call?

Well, the point is that "I'd rather ride right seat reserve forever and make six figures in the first year than be based at home, making 6 after 20" doesn't apply to everyone. There are a ton of contradictions in this thread. Another poster mentioned being happy with their QOL at a regional and they were quickly reminded that that could change at any time- but so could it at a Legacy, even though they sell the tickets. Of course, it's better to be inside the walls of the kingdom. It's safer. But, some people are happy where they are. Let them be happy. Now if they were bitching, that's a different story.

LOL I don't know how you AT folks spend your brakes released compensation, but relatively speaking, it's doable for a family of 5 . And I'm no Dave Ramsey.

 

[kellwolf]

And most of us can't even get an interview...

I pushed, pulled yanked and annoyed everyone I knew at jetBlue. I was lucky enough to fly with FIVE different CAs when I was an FO at 9E that went on to jetBlue. Even luckier, I kept in touch with them. If it hadn't been for that, I'd probably be drinking myself into a stupor right now lamenting the fact that I'm either getting downgraded or a reserve CA in DTW. Likely lighting voodoo dolls of Bloch on fire in the process. Part of it was luck, a lot of it was straight up determination. I decided jetBlue was where I wanted to go, and I put everything I had behind it. If it was a couple of years down the road and I wasn't closer, then I would have shifted the focus to somewhere else I had connections. I know I've filled out a LOT of recommendations for ex-9E guys over here. Part of it is just stick with it and keep pushing. From the time I really started until I finally got the interview was a little over a year.

 

[Kingairer]

By moving on to a major, It improves your odds of a long term career. However, Its entirely possible to move on to the next level and not have the career reward you for the amount of risk that you take. There are many examples out there of airlines who were once great and now don't exist. Take someone who worked for Midwest Express, and when that closed up had nothing to show for it in the end. Take anyone who went to USAir or Piedmont in the late 80s. Etc etc. In the end there are risks with staying and risk with moving on, and I cant fault anyone for making the Bird in hand decision to stay put. But in todays environment, the shift is back to Mainline. Once the AA/US merger happens, youll have 4 big carriers that will pay senior RJ Captain wages by year 2. So then you look at stability, and the lack thereof in the regional sector. I think its easy to feel comfortable if you are a 30 something captain at a regional and feel like you have some cushion should things turn south. But really stop and think about, will this job, at this airline, be here in 10 years (maybe), 20 years? 35 more years? Because unless you are independently wealthy, have a viable second career on the side, sugar momma, or a rich uncle, you're are going to need a job for 35 more years to keep paying the bills.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

LOL I don't know how you AT folks spend your brakes released compensation, but relatively speaking, it's doable for a family of 5 . And I'm no Dave Ramsey.

There's a big difference between "doable" and "very comfortable."

And Dave Ramsey is a doosh.

 

[falconvalley]

There's a big difference between "doable" and "very comfortable."

And Dave Ramsey is a doosh.

Eh, I'm a DIY financial guy, so I can't relate to any pain he must have caused you. Most of those programs are either gimmicky or use financial planning that can be learned in 5 minutes (and should have been a long time ago). My point is that I don't think one has a try very hard to be comfortable at 6 figures, nor do they have to be extremely flexible or creative. The difference between doable and comfortable? Now you've got my attention. Are we talking Lexus vs. Camry or Alexandria vs. Peoria? Because this family of 5 can fly circles around comfortable at 6 figures. But I know that we could go on for a while at what could be considered comfortable. Knowing people in mortgage insurance, it's obvious to me that "uncomfortable" could mean anything from selling assets while getting a 2nd job to dropping the 2nd home.

 

[derg]

There's a big difference between "doable" and "very comfortable."

And Dave Ramsey is a doosh.

I used to listen to him in the late 90's, but he morphed into a pompous ass.

 

[derg]

Eh, I'm a DIY financial guy, so I can't relate to any pain he must have caused you. Most of those programs are either gimmicky or use financial planning that can be learned in 5 minutes (and should have been a long time ago). My point is that I don't think one has a try very hard to be comfortable at 6 figures, nor do they have to be extremely flexible or creative. The difference between doable and comfortable? Now you've got my attention. Are we talking Lexus vs. Camry or Alexandria vs. Peoria? Because this family of 5 can fly circles around comfortable at 6 figures. But I know that we could go on for a while at what could be considered comfortable. Knowing people in mortgage insurance, it's obvious to me that "uncomfortable" could mean anything from selling assets while getting a 2nd job to dropping the 2nd home.

Probably depends on the city, your standard of living and life expectations.

$100,000 after taxes, maintaining your "emergency fund", and 401(k) ain't a whole heck of a lot. Now if you're raising kids and saving for their college, it's gone.

Now if you've got a balance on your credit cards, not fully funding your 401(k) and not saving to pay for your children's education you're truly not living off $100,000.

 

[dasleben]

Probably depends on the city, your standard of living and life expectations.

$100,000 after taxes, maintaining your "emergency fund", and 401(k) ain't a whole heck of a lot. Now if you're raising kids and saving for their college, it's gone.

Now if you've got a balance on your credit cards, not fully funding your 401(k) and not saving to pay for your children's education you're truly not living off $100,000.

I haven't broken 6 figures, but every time I get a raise I think "Heck, that's it?!" I look back and wonder how I ever lived on my $600/paycheck CFI wages.

 

[falconvalley]

Probably depends on the city, your standard of living and life expectations.

$100,000 after taxes, maintaining your "emergency fund", and 401(k) ain't a whole heck of a lot. Now if you're raising kids and saving for their college, it's gone.

Now if you've got a balance on your credit cards, not fully funding your 401(k) and not saving to pay for your children's education you're truly not living off $100,000.

If we moved, we sure as heck wouldn't be as comfortable in some locations. We aren't exactly living in the cheap seats, though. Our property taxes require some getting used to.

 

[HVYMETALDRVR]

This. I find it interesting that people talked of a six-figure income being a big deal when I was a little kid, but here we are 25 year later, money is worth about half what it was then, and people are still talking like a six-figure income is a big deal. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly better money than most people make in this country, but it definitely ain't what it used to be.

I agree with your assessment, the although "six figures" is a loose term. The disparity between $100,000-999,999 is quite large. Unfortunately, even the highest paid airline pilots are on the lower end of that scale.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Eh, I'm a DIY financial guy, so I can't relate to any pain he must have caused you.

He hasn't caused me any pain. I can do basic math, so I know better than to listen to some idiot who tells people to pay off the smallest balances first instead of the highest interest rate. But he certainly does cause a lot of people to lose a lot of money with such nonsense, so I'm not a fan.

My point is that I don't think one has a try very hard to be comfortable at 6 figures, nor do they have to be extremely flexible or creative. The difference between doable and comfortable? Now you've got my attention. Are we talking Lexus vs. Camry or Alexandria vs. Peoria? Because this family of 5 can fly circles around comfortable at 6 figures.

Yes, I think our definition of "very comfortable" is where the difference is coming in. To me, a Camry and a small house is not "very comfortable." A BMW 7-series, a 4,000 sq ft house, and a few other toys like a boat or small airplane, all while putting away 10% of earnings, giving 10% to charity, etc. is "very comfortable." Just not living paycheck to paycheck isn't the same thing in my mind, which seems to be what you're talking about. You can certainly do that on a low six-figure income, even with some kids.

 

[falconvalley]

He hasn't caused me any pain. I can do basic math, so I know better than to listen to some idiot who tells people to pay off the smallest balances first instead of the highest interest rate. But he certainly does cause a lot of people to lose a lot of money with such nonsense, so I'm not a fan.



Yes, I think our definition of "very comfortable" is where the difference is coming in. To me, a Camry and a small house is not "very comfortable." A BMW 7-series, a 4,000 sq ft house, and a few other toys like a boat or small airplane, all while putting away 10% of earnings, giving 10% to charity, etc. is "very comfortable." Just not living paycheck to paycheck isn't the same thing in my mind, which seems to be what you're talking about. You can certainly do that on a low six-figure income, even with some kids.

We're not living paycheck to paycheck and our house is big enough to have empty space, even with this family. We don't own brand new Bimmers, but we would buy a used one in a heartbeat if the right one came along. I drive an XC90 and the wife drives a Quest. And we save. And we invest. In fact I max out my Roth AND do the same percentage of standard. AND I refuse to eat only generic brand or only go out to eat once a year. Comfortable? No?

 

[Kingairer]

If you're happy, im not sure why anyone is trying to talk you out of that. Im sure you are aware of the risks and limitations that are there if you stay with a regional, and same for going to a major.