Ma new babie

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

If you're tough on cars, and now have kids, I would've bought a 2010-2012 Sienna with ~70k miles for around $15k and planned to keep it until you're done hauling kids around after 15 years.

Assuming $1,000/mx a year and a value of $0 at the end of that period you're at a yearly cost of around $2,000 vs $6,000 leasing that new car. After year one you've saved $4,000 (simplifying it), at 7% rate of return plus adding $4,000 savings every year, at year 15 you have $100,000 in your brokerage account ($85k after capital gains) or 529 plans. Total cost was around $30,000 to run the car. Cost of ownership leasing, assuming a modest increase over that time period, runs around $110,000.

So... in summary it will cost an additional estimated $165,000 leasing that car vs running an older one until your kids are driving themselves or rather a self driving car is driving them. That is a true opportunity cost of $916 a month post tax or $16,000 pretax/yr (!) assuming 30% bracket. Maybe your wife makes really good money and this is a drop in the bucket, I know a guy whose wife is a dentist and they spend money like it's an unlimited resource because it basically is, so I can understand both sides.

Now you know why I drive an old car. The time value of money is too strong a pull, but I would really like a Panamera, one of these days .

Sorry, I enjoy decisions such as this .

Did you just say Sienna? The minivan? HANG THE WITCH!!!!!!!!!!! (@Derg)

What about that new car smell? First time I've ever smelled it (first time having a brand spank new car). The leather smell. How do you put a price on that


Somewhat related note, I just flew for the first time the only A321 NEO in the western hemisphere and man did it smell nice! Holy cow. And those engines. Something is just so smooth about that whole thing. The takeoff roll whine, the climbout, landing. It's noticeably different than the 320s and 319s I fly.

Took this picture on the walkaround:

 

[NickH]

Did you just say Sienna? The minivan? HANG THE WITCH!!!!!!!!!!! (@Derg)

What about that new car smell? First time I've ever smelled it (first time having a brand spank new car). The leather smell. How do you put a price on that


Somewhat related note, I just flew for the first time the only A321 NEO in the western hemisphere and man did it smell nice! Holy cow. And those engines. Something is just so smooth about that whole thing. The takeoff roll whine, the climbout, landing. It's noticeably different than the 320s and 319s I fly.

Took this picture on the walkaround:

$16.15 on Amazon... https://www.amazon.com/Chemical-Guys-AIR_101_16-Freshener-Eliminator/dp/B002J7VX4Y

 

[ian]

I'm

Did you just say Sienna? The minivan? HANG THE WITCH!!!!!!!!!!! (@Derg)

What about that new car smell? First time I've ever smelled it (first time having a brand spank new car). The leather smell. How do you put a price on that


Somewhat related note, I just flew for the first time the only A321 NEO in the western hemisphere and man did it smell nice! Holy cow. And those engines. Something is just so smooth about that whole thing. The takeoff roll whine, the climbout, landing. It's noticeably different than the 320s and 319s I fly.

Took this picture on the walkaround:

sorry did you mistake this place for airliners.net?

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Somewhat related note, I just flew for the first time the only A321 NEO in the western hemisphere and man did it smell nice! Holy cow. And those engines. Something is just so smooth about that whole thing. The takeoff roll whine, the climbout, landing. It's noticeably different than the 320s and 319s I fly.

Took this picture on the walkaround:

Awe, that thing is adorable!

 

[BigZ]

Did you just say Sienna? The minivan? HANG THE WITCH!!!!!!!!!!! (@Derg)

Just bought a minivan like a week ago )))
Wife was driving around in a Golf Sportwagen TDI, purchased not a month before the Dieselgate.
Since that thing is going back and we wanted something with three rows, looked at
- Mazda CX9 Signature - reasonably fun
- VW Atlas - complete and utter meh made out of the Golf platform
- Honda Pilot - quite enjoyable
Ended up with this

Before the VW she had an FJ Cruiser for six or seven years, but occasionally drove our company T&C Limited
Which hauled everything from seven full size people to aircraft engines to stacks of drywall and 2x4s - talk about utility.

Wife, dad and mom got new cars over the past three weeks. I feel like I spent a year in the middle East doing the grocery shopping at a bazaar with all the haggling that comes with it.
Funny thing is, I do tell the sales managers that we can cut the bs and I'll pay $X + $500 for the car, or we can haggle till barnacles start growing on our butts, but then I'll pay the $X. I do end up paying the $X, but goddammit I'd be happy with the $X+500 five hours ago.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Nice! Is that a Pacifica?

You know I'm not entirely against minivans, they definitely have their purpose. When it comes to taking 7 people and bags, a minivan is the way to go. The 3rd row SUVs like the one I got can also sit 7 people, but with the 3rd row seat up, your cargo space is very limited. So most young families in my shoes just collapse the 3rd row for more cargo space and make do with the 5 seats. It's a great setup, because we technically don't need 7 people, we need 5 people car with lots of room.

This year I'm 33 and wife is 29. She quickly eliminated a minivan from our options. Don't blame her. How many women in their 20s do ya'll know driving around minivans?

(BigZ, no offense if your wife is in her 20s. That's still a nice looking minivan)

 

[ClarkGriswold]

Just bought a minivan like a week ago )))
Wife was driving around in a Golf Sportwagen TDI, purchased not a month before the Dieselgate.
Since that thing is going back and we wanted something with three rows, looked at
- Mazda CX9 Signature - reasonably fun
- VW Atlas - complete and utter meh made out of the Golf platform
- Honda Pilot - quite enjoyable
Ended up with this
View attachment 39036

Before the VW she had an FJ Cruiser for six or seven years, but occasionally drove our company T&C Limited
Which hauled everything from seven full size people to aircraft engines to stacks of drywall and 2x4s - talk about utility.

Wife, dad and mom got new cars over the past three weeks. I feel like I spent a year in the middle East doing the grocery shopping at a bazaar with all the haggling that comes with it.
Funny thing is, I do tell the sales managers that we can cut the bs and I'll pay $X + $500 for the car, or we can haggle till barnacles start growing on our butts, but then I'll pay the $X. I do end up paying the $X, but goddammit I'd be happy with the $X+500 five hours ago.

I never tell them what I'll pay. I have a number in mind but will not tell them what it is until they attempt to get close a time or 2. Also never buy until the end of the month. Fail @Cherokee_Cruiser

 

[milleR]

Also never buy until the end of the month. Fail @Cherokee_Cruiser

x1000

Month end is the deal making time.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I never tell them what I'll pay. I have a number in mind but will not tell them what it is until they attempt to get close. Also never buy until the end of the month. Fail @Cherokee_Cruiser

Excuse you sir It was at the end of the month.

The specific car I wanted was at Dealership A. Dealership A wouldn't agree to $700 bank fee up front + $445/month all included (tax, dmv, doc, everything). Best was $495/month. As I walked out, the countered with their absolute lowest at 486/month with $700 upfront. Not good enough, so I still left. That was May 30th.

May 31st. Told my lease broker to see what he could get, and by sheer coincidence (and irony), it was the exact car at Dealership A that he found. But dealership A wouldn't deal with lease brokers. Broker's Infiniti dealership, lets call it Dealership B. Dealership B said, okay and even with broker's profit built in, dealership B said I could do $700 upfront and $444.89/month but we had to agree TODAY. So I did! Dealership B put in a transfer request to have this car shipped from Dealership A to Dealership B. My price was locked in May 31st. With the transfer of the car from one dealership to another, and the trip I had to fly, I postponed delivery to June 6. But, the deal was finalized and put forth on the 31st. Also, this dealership was actually in PA. It was 80 miles away (near Philly). They drove it to my home and delivered it to me, free. So I didn't even have to make the trip down there. I got the car June 6, but the deal itself was finalized May 31st.

I'm sure the broker gets his cut, and Dealership B makes their own profit. But fact remains, within May 29-th - 31st, I tried the two local Infiniti dealers that had the exact same exterior color / interior color / base model and each time I walked out on their last final best offer. No one came close to the $445 I wanted. The absolute lowest came to 486/month.

The car's MSRP is $46,610. The agreed upon price of the vehicle on the paperwork was $39,725. I've used multiple pricing forms online, browsed forums on cars and edmunds and from everything I gather, I did indeed lock in an excellent vehicle sale price, and probably because it was the end of the month and dealership B was probably looking to meet a quota.

 

[BigZ]

I never tell them what I'll pay. I have a number in mind but will not tell them what it is until they attempt to get close a time or 2. Also never buy until the end of the month. Fail @Cherokee_Cruiser

Oh me neither. Whoever says the amount first looses

 

[BigZ]

(BigZ, no offense if your wife is in her 20s. That's still a nice looking minivan)

Thanks! Drives nice too, got that super smooth American minivan ride.

We're both on the north side of the mid 30s, so past the 20s and not quite there for the midlife crisis
Heck, I even traded an R32 for a Passat Sport couple of years back that's how boring it is

 

[milleR]

and probably because it was the end of the month and dealership B was probably looking to meet a quota.

It's not so much the dealer as it's the financing company that has a month end goal to hit. This is what my wife does, and the last couple days of every month are crazy (a thousand time worse if it coincides with a holiday like Memorial Day this year).

Edit to add: if you don't have the best credit, then month end is the only time to shop. I've eavesdropped on some utterly absurd approvals on the 31st.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Well I had done the research and had a fair price in mind. For leasing, I don't play the go back and forth games. They try to. I give a price based on the research I've already done, and will show them my math. I'm not wrong on the numbers, and they know it. Because if you do your homework, you will know the residual value and the money factor being used at that particular moment from the financial company associated with the car.

I use Edmunds forums to obtain the residual value and the money factor for a given vehicle, state, lease length, and mileage. So in this case, 2017 QX60 AWD, the residual value is 58% for a 39 month lease with 10k miles/year and the MF is .00103. That's a 2.472% APR.

The two parts of a lease payment are Depreciation (D) and the Rent Charge (F).

D = ( adj. capitalized cost - residual value ) / 39 months = cost per month in depreciation

F = ( adj. capitalized cost + residual value) * MF which is .00103 = cost of interest per month.

Monthly payment = D+F.

And of course add in the tax if you don't want to pay that upfront.

Knowing the residual value of 58% it means it is 27,033.8. And knowing the MF of .00103. So the only remaining key number is the final price of the vehicle.


Truecar values are never the lowest price you could get. Truecar pays a dealership about $299 for a new car if you take their agreed certificate price. In this case, for a 46,610 vehcile, truecar was coming to 42k. From browsing multiple car forums and asking new QX60 owners their final vehicle sale price, most were from 40k-43k. No one I had heard from said anything less than 40k for this particular AWD vehicle. So my goal was to use an assumption of 39.9k for the vehicle sale price. Add in the taxes, dmv, and dealer doc, and get the adjusted cap cost that way. Run the numbers then. And viola! Using 39,725 I got my payment to coincide.

And look, I'm not against a dealership making a profit. It's a local business and they have costs and expenses and have to make a profit to stay in business. So I get all that. I just try to gain as much an advantage as I can on the selling price of the vehicle to what consider "fair." Research on forums, see what other people have paid, look at national averages of prices for the particular car model sold, and I go from there. I don't randomly pull a number out of the rear end

For June, IFS has dropped the residual value of this vehicle from 58% to 57%. So now it's worse if you don't want to keep the car, and you will end up paying more.