Lufthansa Strike

Minuteman

Minuteman

Shipoaster
I understand that flight crews with Lufthansa, Lufthansa Cityline, and Eurowings went on strike earlier this week.

Then the strike was extended another few day (Euro labor strikes are different than in the US).

Now I see news that Lifthansa Cityline is permanently ceasing operations on Saturday(!)

Anyone have more details about what's going on with our German friends? Please hold the pith for industry discussion for a moment.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
No!!!

I love the 340s :(

Doubling the cost of fuel overnight, along with demand to the US drying up at the same time... There were going to be consequences. There have also been Tram and U-Bahn strikes at the same time here in Munich, so it wasn't like you were going to get to the airport anyway.
Click to expand...
Love me some good European strike ability. One could argue it is taken too far on occasion, but I'll always be on the side of labor.


View: https://youtu.be/SKWfnO7fhQM?si=W_sbqoN8-IDGS5JK
 
Is there any info on what the strike is about? Media will always just say “wages” to make the pilots look greedy and the union website is all in German.
 
bike21 said:
Love me some good European strike ability. One could argue it is taken too far on occasion, but I'll always be on the side of labor.


View: https://youtu.be/SKWfnO7fhQM?si=W_sbqoN8-IDGS5JK
Click to expand...


Unfortunately it doesn't seem to do them any good for the bottom line. The pilot market in Euro-land, as well as just about everywhere else in the world varies between a continual train-wreck and dumpster fire. They're certainly not immune from state-run flameouts, like Sabena or Swissair, either.

Scroll through over at PP land, and you'll find they have less control of their schedule, and get paid less to do it. And that's at the top end, with the stable carriers like BA, Luft, KLM and AF. The bottom end is pretty horrific, with mostly 80s style commuter management, except with big jets. Yes, the EU lets you work in other countries, but it also lets the airlines be pretty sketch when it comes to pay, taxes, labor rules and working conditions. It's basically exactly what airlinebros would do if they got their way on everything.
 
Richman said:
Unfortunately it doesn't seem to do them any good for the bottom line. The pilot market in Euro-land, as well as just about everywhere else in the world varies between a continual train-wreck and dumpster fire. They're certainly not immune from state-run flameouts, like Sabena or Swissair, either.

Scroll through over at PP land, and you'll find they have less control of their schedule, and get paid less to do it. And that's at the top end, with the stable carriers like BA, Luft, KLM and AF. The bottom end is pretty horrific, with mostly 80s style commuter management, except with big jets. Yes, the EU lets you work in other countries, but it also lets the airlines be pretty sketch when it comes to pay, taxes, labor rules and working conditions. It's basically exactly what airlinebros would do if they got their way on everything.
Click to expand...
Yeah the fragmentation does not help them by any means. Though many love to complain about ALPA, the ECA's hands are tied with so many pilot groups under different country's rules and laws. I'm not keen on what they are doing to establish a better cohesive bargaining pattern but hopefully they are. Then you get the likes of Ryanair and EasyJet making Great Lakes look good for work rules.

That said, imagine if they couldn't strike where they'd be?
 
Richman said:
Unfortunately it doesn't seem to do them any good for the bottom line. The pilot market in Euro-land, as well as just about everywhere else in the world varies between a continual train-wreck and dumpster fire. They're certainly not immune from state-run flameouts, like Sabena or Swissair, either.
Click to expand...
Pretty much thinking the same thing.

One big reason for this is that we have a massive domestic operation compared to literally every other country (don't think China has caught up yet). This has provided our airlines with a bit more stability and opportunity.
 
bike21 said:
Yeah the fragmentation does not help them by any means. Though many love to complain about ALPA, the ECA's hands are tied with so many pilot groups under different country's rules and laws. I'm not keen on what they are doing to establish a better cohesive bargaining pattern but hopefully they are. Then you get the likes of Ryanair and EasyJet making Great Lakes look good for work rules.

That said, imagine if they couldn't strike where they'd be?
Click to expand...

Fair point, but it never seems to move to ball much for them. More like fire for effect.

The RLA is no panacea, I will fully grant, but the NRLA would blow just as hard, because the RLA allows airline wide negotiating, whereas the NRLA allows location by location organizing and bargaining. Imagine if every crew base had to negotiate it's own contract.
 
Whaddya mean low cost everything operates out of Malta/Hungary... Switzerland and Austria have a v different approach.

No LPV approaches in UK post brexit. Sorry Nigel...
 
Richman said:
Fair point, but it never seems to move to ball much for them. More like fire for effect.

The RLA is no panacea, I will fully grant, but the NRLA would blow just as hard, because the RLA allows airline wide negotiating, whereas the NRLA allows location by location organizing and bargaining. Imagine if every crew base had to negotiate it's own contract.
Click to expand...
That's the double edged sword for sure. Kind of like individual grocery stores having unions and they each have different contracts under the same chain. Pretty wild.

Hope the EU folks can collectively move forward for their own good, just went to the ECA site out of curiosity and found this article. They certainly have some work ahead of them.

www.eurocockpit.eu

Europe’s hidden pilot fatigue crisis

This summer, millions of Europeans will board planes expecting to be carried across skies by highly trained, well-rested professionals. But the blunt reality is that behind the cockpit door, many pilots are exhausted.
www.eurocockpit.eu www.eurocockpit.eu

All that said, as long as they can effectively manage a good QOL at their airlines they still do enjoy the benefits of living in the EU. So there's that.
 
bike21 said:
All that said, as long as they can effectively manage a good QOL at their airlines they still do enjoy the benefits of living in the EU. So there's that.
Click to expand...

Went to high school for a time over there, pre-EU. After the novelty wore off, I found it pretty meh. There's pretty spots on the post cards, and ugly spots that don't make the picture, just like here. In a way, it was very much like much of the world, in that if you are juiced in, man it works great. But if you're not, it doesn't. Knew a guy who commuted to Europe, and was married into one of the minor noble houses (yea, that's still a thing even on the continent). So life for him was good, but that's obviously not everyone.

But I don't begrudge anyone that wants to roll the bones.
 
Richman said:
Went to high school for a time over there, pre-EU. After the novelty wore off, I found it pretty meh. There's pretty spots on the post cards, and ugly spots that don't make the picture, just like here. In a way, it was very much like much of the world, in that if you are juiced in, man it works great. But if you're not, it doesn't. Knew a guy who commuted to Europe, and was married into one of the minor noble houses (yea, that's still a thing even on the continent). So life for him was good, but that's obviously not everyone.

But I don't begrudge anyone that wants to roll the bones.
Click to expand...
Certainly no claims of utopia, there is plenty of dysfunction over there as well. However everyone has their individual value set and ours happens to align a bit more Euro if you will.
 
JordanD said:
Is there any info on what the strike is about? Media will always just say “wages” to make the pilots look greedy and the union website is all in German.
Click to expand...

Love me some pilots and have no great love for mainstream media, but compensation is always at the top of the list.

Lufthansa should have worked on becoming a better Lufthansa instead of investing in foreign and discount carriers. Some folks say that Lufthansa should have contracted instead of expanding.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top