coa787
Unknown Member
That's true, my question was about pay, but any additional information is also welcome.
...And also, what is Per Diem?
Lowest Regional Airline Pilot Salary
- Thread starter coa787
- Start date
That's true, my question was about pay, but any additional information is also welcome.
...And also, what is Per Diem?
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Wow! I just noticed that Mesaba F/Os are all paid the same. Gotta love flying that shiny CRJ-900 for $28/hr your second year...
the snapbacks will help the pay once the last one is on the property.
LoadMasterC141
Well-Known Member
Seriously, I was just trying to help a fellow wannabe out with what I had read. Not trying to step on any toes. He is 17, new to the boards, and obviously trying to get better acquainted with the industry. He is asking a question I asked a few years back, but then some people helped me out and I began to understand pay is not everything, especially first year pay.
I was just trying to help him out.
I think TP guys should get paid more, but for the most part, it seems to me that they don't. Even if first year pay is high on some, the jets seem to quickly pass them in subesequent yearly compensation.
So Piedmont has $25 the first year. Sure that is pretty high. Second is $29 though. Xjet is $23 1st and $34 second. A 3 yr Pied -8 CA makes $54 while at Xjet the CA is making $65.
And then there is Horizon:
$29 hour the first year! While admirable, when that same happy F/O is at 7 years with no turbine PIC time, making $44/hr, while his counterpart at Republic passed that salary her third year when she made Captain, and has since gotten enough PIC time to move on to Southwest, well....thats' why I felt it important to explain how other factors 'COULD' come into play, even with pay.
LoadMasterC141
Well-Known Member
Per diem is a rate you get paid, I believe, for every hour you are away from your home base. Look at the very bottom of the page at APC you were on and you will see a per diem rate. Again, I am not 100% sure how it works so I was hoping someone other than me, the wannabe, could chime in and give a more accurate answer. Perhaps on some night other than New Years eve
While you are waiting, checkout this AWESOME synopsis JC'er Wheelsup did about salary and such.
http://forums.jetcareers.com/pro-pilot-corner/50467-what-second-year-regional-will-get-you.html
Seggy
Well-Known Member
A few things. First, really can't go off straight pay rates. It really goes hand in hand with work/pay rules. The only way to get that would be to look at their contract. For example, a regional FO made over $100,000 their second year. There is MUCH more to this story, including a scheduler losing their job, but second year pay at his company was about $33 an hour
Also for budgeting purposes DO NOT factor in per diem. No guarantee you will get that. Only factor in your month guarantee when you create a budget for yourself.
Also, be careful about expecting to go to an airline based on quick upgrade times. It can change tommorow!
Hope this helps.
Also for budgeting purposes DO NOT factor in per diem. No guarantee you will get that. Only factor in your month guarantee when you create a budget for yourself.
Also, be careful about expecting to go to an airline based on quick upgrade times. It can change tommorow!
Hope this helps.
coa787
Unknown Member
Thanks for helping me out , LoadMaster, as well as everyone else. Yes, I am trying to better understand the industry and find out things that will help me make better choices regarding my path to becoming an airline pilot, so that I don't end up making a mistake that I will regret for a long time.
HAPPY NEW YEAR!
HAPPY NEW YEAR!
LoadMasterC141
Well-Known Member
sleepy3528
Well-Known Member
if you go to a place like colgan where most rips are out and backs then you wont be seeing much per diem. at the better regionals if you do 2-4 day trips then you will be earning somewhere between 350-400 dollars in non-taxable per diem which adds up over time. if you do day trips it is taxed and you only acrue it when you are working that day trip so it really isnt worth it. It does help out though and pays for meals on the road. People do spend less then they make in per diem at my company by being frugal but it is a hard life. Also there are tax benefits to working at an airline that does mostly multiple day trips in different cities. Usually in your first year you will earn almost 4 thousand -5 thousand in per diem throughout the course of the year and much of that will be non-taxed.
another thing to look at is a companies contract which would allow you to get paid well above min guarantee without doing too much extra flying. taking advantage of a good contract is working smart not hard. first year at XJT i was able to make 32 thou but i also enjoyed travel benefits on CAL, company match on my 401k at 4% for first year, and a base that is right near my home. Those are all things that you need to consider when working at a regional. If a low end regional is right next door to your house and you want to be home then it might make sense.
another thing to look at is a companies contract which would allow you to get paid well above min guarantee without doing too much extra flying. taking advantage of a good contract is working smart not hard. first year at XJT i was able to make 32 thou but i also enjoyed travel benefits on CAL, company match on my 401k at 4% for first year, and a base that is right near my home. Those are all things that you need to consider when working at a regional. If a low end regional is right next door to your house and you want to be home then it might make sense.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Airline pay credits work like this:
Logged flight time, from pushback at the gate to chocks in at the arrival gate is called 'block time'.
Block time is the starting basis, in hours, for your pay. Beyond that, credit time or credit hours are the pay hours you get for little extras that aren't really loggable flight time, ie, deadheading, run-ups, repositioning the airplane on the airport surface, sitting 'hot reserve', etc.
You take your block hours, or actual flying time, and just call that credit hours, then add the credit hours you got from other things. The total number of hours you get is your total pay credit for the month.
Total hours pay credit x your hourly pay rate= your paycheck, before deductions.
Example: I flew 80 block hours this month. I also did runups, repos, and a few deadheads giving me a credit of 8 more hours. Total pay credit for the month is 88 hours. Times my hourly rate of $24 a month (for example) is
$2112, before deductions, taxes, etc.
Minimum guarantee pay is what you get when your total block or credit hours for a month would not be greater than a certain amount. ie, if you're sitting reserve and not flying all month, you're going to get paid min guarantee. The min guarantee hours (usually 72 to 75, varyingly) times your hourly rate becomes your paycheck for the month.
Ex: 75 hr min guarantee x $24/hr = $1800.
I used $24 because that's year one FO pay at my company.
Keep in mind, you can't always determine where the best pay rate will be at a regional just because of their pay scale. Work rules and how you're compensated for those 'credit time' events varies from place to place. It's possible to fly the same amount of hours in a month at a place that pays a dollar or two less per hour and still make more than somewhere else.
The best way to find out what regional pay is like is to ask someone from that specific company to lay out the specifics for you. It's usually never as simple as it initially seems.
You're on the right track, though. Most folks here are glad to help out with an honest question.
Some have sticks in their a** though so don't let that phase you.
SmitteyB
Well-Known Member
Not so sure about the above post...
Piedmont pays well for flying 37 seat turboprops. Mesa actually doesn't pay too bad. Mesa's work rules are terrible that is what you're thinking of.
Great Lakes, CommutAir- bottom of the barrell. Colgan/Pinnacle are lower end paying. SKYW turboprop FO pay is same as Colgan.(SKW= $19/hour first year)
Stick up my a$$, eh?
The reason I responded the way I did was because some people like to give out what they believe to be good information, when in reality the info they give isn't worth the electrons it cost to send it. The "turboprops are low end" statement rubbed me the wrong way, as that's not necessarily true, and I'm an alum of one of those carriers. I'm not singling you out, Loadmaster, as I know you had good intentions. But "I've heard this" and "My buddy said this" statements usually don't hold water. Did you ever do that exercise back in school where the first person whispered something to the next, and by the time the statement got to the other end of the room, it was completely different from the original? Same premise.
There are a lot of factors to consider when selecting an airline. If you're basing it solely on pay, are you talking about the grand scheme of things, to include upgrading at a particular time? Or are you talking just first year? Lots to consider...
As for Piedmont, when I was hired there (Aug 06), the guys who were upgrading when I was in initial were hired in the Spring-Summer 2001 timeframe, which put them just over a five year upgrade. The upgrades slowed for a while, and the timeframe went to 6 years, but it's back to 3.5 now.
Now for the pay. If you want to look at pay, as I stated before, you have to make a lot of assumptions. First, let's assume that upgrade remains at 3.5 years. I know it won't, as APC also says "Over half of the active first officers currently employed were hired in 2007". But lets assume it anyway. Also, we'll assume guarantee. We'll also assume that you'll split your time between the -100 and the -300 after upgrade, so we'll average that rate. And this doesn't take into account the contractual pay raises, since PDT's contract is amendable in 2009 and nobody knows what those rates will be.
Year 1: $25/hr x 72 hour guarantee x 12 months = $21,600
Year 2: $29 x 72 x 12 = $25,056
Year 3: $31 x 72 x 12 = $26,784
Year 4: $32 x 72 x 6 = $13,824
Upgrade $53 x 72 x 6 = $22,260 = 36,084
Not a lot, huh? Doing the same math for ExpressJet, assuming a 75 hour guarantee and a 3 year (laugh) upgrade, will yield the following numbers:
$20,700
$30,600
$33,300
$57,600
There are a lot of other things to consider besides pay. Quality of life is probably the biggest. Of course good pay contributes to good QOL. But how about commuting vs. living in base? When I was at PDT, I lived in base. I sat reserve last Christmas and didn't get used, but I did it at home. That was awesome. I spent my first three months at XJT commuting to sit reserve in the crashpad, and didn't get used for quite a bit of it. That was an extremely miserable time. Contributing to your QOL will be your work rules. Do you get paid 100% for deadheads? How many times can you be junior-manned, and what does the company do for you when they do that? And so on, and so on, ad infinitum...
Anyway, as I and others like Loadmaster stated before, there is a lot more to consider than pay when looking at regional airlines. I know some of these guys were just trying to help you out, coa787. You're doing the right thing by seeking out information. My only advice to you is to talk to actual pilots who are working at the regionals which you are considering. They'll be your best source of info. I know you're probably just starting the process, so good on you for trying to get the info. These forums have pilots from most of the airlines, so just look for them if you have a question about their airline specifically.
Oh yeah, to answer your original question, it's more than likely Great Lakes. I have a buddy over there (take that for what it's worth) who is making crap for money, is getting abused like hell, has been there about 11 months and is getting pushed toward upgrade before he's even flown a full winter in the Rockies. But on the bright side, he'll upgrade around April, get his turbine PIC quickly, and be out of there and on to a (hopefully) better carrier. He will probably leave Great Lakes for Allegiant (if all goes well) before I upgrade at XJT. Something else to consider. But I'd encourage you to find a Great Lakes pilot on here to get the real skinny. Good luck.
The reason I responded the way I did was because some people like to give out what they believe to be good information, when in reality the info they give isn't worth the electrons it cost to send it. The "turboprops are low end" statement rubbed me the wrong way, as that's not necessarily true, and I'm an alum of one of those carriers. I'm not singling you out, Loadmaster, as I know you had good intentions. But "I've heard this" and "My buddy said this" statements usually don't hold water. Did you ever do that exercise back in school where the first person whispered something to the next, and by the time the statement got to the other end of the room, it was completely different from the original? Same premise.
There are a lot of factors to consider when selecting an airline. If you're basing it solely on pay, are you talking about the grand scheme of things, to include upgrading at a particular time? Or are you talking just first year? Lots to consider...
As for Piedmont, when I was hired there (Aug 06), the guys who were upgrading when I was in initial were hired in the Spring-Summer 2001 timeframe, which put them just over a five year upgrade. The upgrades slowed for a while, and the timeframe went to 6 years, but it's back to 3.5 now.
Now for the pay. If you want to look at pay, as I stated before, you have to make a lot of assumptions. First, let's assume that upgrade remains at 3.5 years. I know it won't, as APC also says "Over half of the active first officers currently employed were hired in 2007". But lets assume it anyway. Also, we'll assume guarantee. We'll also assume that you'll split your time between the -100 and the -300 after upgrade, so we'll average that rate. And this doesn't take into account the contractual pay raises, since PDT's contract is amendable in 2009 and nobody knows what those rates will be.
Year 1: $25/hr x 72 hour guarantee x 12 months = $21,600
Year 2: $29 x 72 x 12 = $25,056
Year 3: $31 x 72 x 12 = $26,784
Year 4: $32 x 72 x 6 = $13,824
Upgrade $53 x 72 x 6 = $22,260 = 36,084
Not a lot, huh? Doing the same math for ExpressJet, assuming a 75 hour guarantee and a 3 year (laugh) upgrade, will yield the following numbers:
$20,700
$30,600
$33,300
$57,600
There are a lot of other things to consider besides pay. Quality of life is probably the biggest. Of course good pay contributes to good QOL. But how about commuting vs. living in base? When I was at PDT, I lived in base. I sat reserve last Christmas and didn't get used, but I did it at home. That was awesome. I spent my first three months at XJT commuting to sit reserve in the crashpad, and didn't get used for quite a bit of it. That was an extremely miserable time. Contributing to your QOL will be your work rules. Do you get paid 100% for deadheads? How many times can you be junior-manned, and what does the company do for you when they do that? And so on, and so on, ad infinitum...
Anyway, as I and others like Loadmaster stated before, there is a lot more to consider than pay when looking at regional airlines. I know some of these guys were just trying to help you out, coa787. You're doing the right thing by seeking out information. My only advice to you is to talk to actual pilots who are working at the regionals which you are considering. They'll be your best source of info. I know you're probably just starting the process, so good on you for trying to get the info. These forums have pilots from most of the airlines, so just look for them if you have a question about their airline specifically.
Oh yeah, to answer your original question, it's more than likely Great Lakes. I have a buddy over there (take that for what it's worth) who is making crap for money, is getting abused like hell, has been there about 11 months and is getting pushed toward upgrade before he's even flown a full winter in the Rockies. But on the bright side, he'll upgrade around April, get his turbine PIC quickly, and be out of there and on to a (hopefully) better carrier. He will probably leave Great Lakes for Allegiant (if all goes well) before I upgrade at XJT. Something else to consider. But I'd encourage you to find a Great Lakes pilot on here to get the real skinny. Good luck.
Snuggle
Well-Known Member
You also should look at Reserve times. They fluctuate often based on hiring and growth and vary by base. Colgan has little or no reserve time. Check out my thread about my 6 month pay, I never had a reserve line so I was able to make a lot of over guarantee from the start.
http://forums.jetcareers.com/pro-pilot-corner/57395-6-months-pay-regional.html
http://forums.jetcareers.com/pro-pilot-corner/57395-6-months-pay-regional.html
Three years? Consider yourself lucky. I flew with an 8 year CA who doesn't make as much as I did working for Uncle Sam...can you say 67% pay cut?
But the view at FL370 is much better than the view on the ground at Balad, Taji, or BIAP...
SmitteyB
Well-Known Member
Colgan may only pay $21/hour, however for instance...
I haven't started flying January yet and I've got a 90 hour block line which has a pay credit of 114 hours. With LGA that can easily turn into 120-125 pay credit and I can still be legal to pick up open time. I've got 13 days off.
I sleep in my own bed everynight and get to see my family everyday. To me- the QOL factor overcomes some of the crap you have to put up with.
I haven't started flying January yet and I've got a 90 hour block line which has a pay credit of 114 hours. With LGA that can easily turn into 120-125 pay credit and I can still be legal to pick up open time. I've got 13 days off.
I sleep in my own bed everynight and get to see my family everyday. To me- the QOL factor overcomes some of the crap you have to put up with.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Open time and staffing levels will have a greater impact on your pay than actual pay rates IMO. In the lean times I was doing 105-110 hours credit, now it's more like guarantee. My company traditionally runs well staffed, so if you go to a company that typically runs "lean" you'd have more luck picking up trips and adding to the pay, as the post above goes to show.
Snuggle
Well-Known Member
Ain't that the truth... I purposely picked a reserve line in Dec to spend some more time at home and boy did I get it. I flew 20 hours this month. I finally get to fly tomorrow after 2 weeks of no flying.
SmitteyB
Well-Known Member
Very good point Wheelsup. With Colgan NOT holding any Saab FO classes until March, and the OPEN time available for JANUARY, I think that being a Saab FO here could yield 100 hours of block and 120 hours of pay credit for a couple of months to come.
Snuggle
Well-Known Member
cha ching!