Low Time Pilots

R

rpatte1637

Well-Known Member
So many time I see threads from other pilot on how low time pilot are not ready to handle some of the aircraft that regional airlines have. Accidents happen no matter what your experience level or flight time is. Today's Comair crash was flown by experienced pilot, the captain was with comair since 1999 and the first officer since 2002 according to reports. Who knows, maybe a low time first officer may have caught the error on the ground, may not, but this just shows, any one can make a mistake.
 
I dont think anyone says that high timers don't make mistakes, I think its more that the high timers have been through so many different scenarios so many times and would have better judgement skills than a guy flying through his first snowstorm down to minimums with heavy ice building up and low fuel and the alternate airport looking shady. Thats when quality times makes a difference. We're all human, we all make mistakes.
 
So, you're trying to use the crash and loss of 49 lives as a soapbox to support low-time pilots in jet aircraft cockpits?

:whatever:
 
A source of mine relates that the FO on the Comair flight came to Comair from Gulfstream. No flame, just a fact.
 
SteveC said:
So, you're trying to use the crash and loss of 49 lives as a soapbox to support low-time pilots in jet aircraft cockpits?

:whatever:
Click to expand...

That's what it looks from my eyes.

Also appears to be just another troll. :confused:

MDPilot said:
A source of mine relates that the FO on the Comair flight came to Comair from Gulfstream. No flame, just a fact.
Click to expand...

As much as I can't stand Gulfstream. . . I've been waiting all day for the first mention of something like this. Oh how I wish it be not true.
 
This might be a good time for the FAA/ALPA to establish entrance criteria for the Part 121 cockpit. Baseline aptitude testing and upgraded minimum experience requirements...a CPA can't do your taxes without the same...so why should a federally licensed commercial airline pilot not meet stricter aptitude testing? While most regional pilots are awesome...I'm not sure the regional airlines are holding a golden standard when it comes to hiring.
 
B767Driver said:
This might be a good time for the FAA/ALPA to establish entrance criteria for the Part 121 cockpit. Baseline aptitude testing and upgraded minimum experience requirements...a CPA can't do your taxes without the same...so why should a federally licensed commercial airline pilot not meet stricter aptitude testing? While most regional pilots are awesome...I'm not sure the regional airlines are holding a golden standard when it comes to hiring.
Click to expand...

Well, you'd hope that the training alone is an apptitude test in and of itself.

Unfortunately, kids with their parent's money go off to poor training facilities, get certified, and bad things happen. Before the flaming begins, I'm being VERY general. So relax.

I'd be more than happy to take an apptitude test. No questions asked. But isn't the ATP written suppose to do this? Perhaps a stronger ATP written is in need.

I'm trying not to monday night quarterback here, but a lapse of concentration is all that could of happen. And now, 49 people are dead, 1 in critical condition.

Stay attentive.
 
MDPilot said:
A source of mine relates that the FO on the Comair flight came to Comair from Gulfstream. No flame, just a fact.
Click to expand...

I put this in one of my posts in the main cmr thread earlier today but edited out after some thought.

I really don't think being a GIA grad had much to do with any pilot errors in this case. The guy had over 4000 hours. Sure, those first 1000 or so out of the 1900 are sketchy I would think after that amount of time in an RJ he would be a competent pilot.

surreal1221 said:
I'd be more than happy to take an apptitude test. No questions asked. But isn't the ATP written suppose to do this? Perhaps a stronger ATP written is in need.
Click to expand...

The ATP written is a joke as far as real day to day knowledge goes. Figuring %MAC isn't going to help a low time pilot line up on the right runway. A series of OE trips and yearly sim and reccurent will.
 
BobDDuck said:
I put this in one of my posts in the main cmr thread earlier today but edited out after some thought.

I really don't think being a GIA grad had much to do with any pilot errors in this case. The guy had over 4000 hours. Sure, those first 1000 or so out of the 1900 are sketchy I would think after that amount of time in an RJ he would be a competent pilot.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

And this accident, is much different than the previous GIA grad showboating at Four One OOh.
 
B767Driver said:
It would enrich the quality of applicants qualified for the Part 121 cockpit. By limiting the supply by establishing a higher baseline qualification you would presume to hire a better candidate...and by default eliminate the questionable hiring practices that exist.
Click to expand...

I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

Sure, places that PFJ use questionable hiring practices.

ASA, SkyWest, Colgan, Comair, MESA (yes, even MESA. . . ), PCL, Air Whiskey, etc etc etc . . . do not use questionable hiring practices.

Tell me a part 121 that uses questionable hiring practices, in your mind. I'd like to know, so as to stay the hell away from them.

And who would administer said aptitude test? The companies or the government?

(well 76 driver, looks like I stole your post. - gotta be quicker with the delete ;) )

BobDDuck said:
The ATP written is a joke as far as real day to day knowledge goes. Figuring %MAC isn't going to help a low time pilot line up on the right runway. A series of OE trips and yearly sim and reccurent will.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. It appears to be a simple lapse of concentration during the taxi to 22. Nothing more, nothing less. It sucks, yes, but it happens. :( Gotta check that DG before you roll. :( I'll shut up now, I'm merely a 7.4 hour student, with an air traffic background.
 
A "higher" quality of applicants isnt going to help pilots that get their head up their ass every once in a while. It happens to them all, and something all the chains link up to form an accident. Most of the time these accidents are nothing but bad luck.
 
"MESA (yes, even MESA. . . ), PCL....do not use questionable hiring practices"

What is it about MAPD and Jet U you don't find questionable?
 
DE727UPS said:
"MESA (yes, even MESA. . . ), PCL....do not use questionable hiring practices"

What is it about MAPD and Jet U you don't find questionable?
Click to expand...

Jet U and MAPD are the issue. An outsider can still get hired at both companies without going to either of those two institutions.

You follow? Don't blur the line between requirements and training programs before hire.

If you wish, we can talk all night long about the wrongs of Jet U, MAPD, GIA, etc. My statement about hiring practices have nothing to do with the individuals training program BEFORE hire. Feel free to debate as you wish, but please do not take my comments out of context.
 
surreal1221 said:
I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

Sure, places that PFJ use questionable hiring practices.

ASA, SkyWest, Colgan, Comair, MESA (yes, even MESA. . . ), PCL, Air Whiskey, etc etc etc . . . do not use questionable hiring practices.

Tell me a part 121 that uses questionable hiring practices, in your mind. I'd like to know, so as to stay the hell away from them.

And who would administer said aptitude test? The companies or the government?

(well 76 driver, looks like I stole your post. - gotta be quicker with the delete ;) )



I agree 100%. It appears to be a simple lapse of concentration during the taxi to 22. Nothing more, nothing less. It sucks, yes, but it happens. :( Gotta check that DG before you roll. :( I'll shut up now, I'm merely a 7.4 hour student, with an air traffic background.
Click to expand...

Yes...I deleted that post because I'm not going to get into this argument. I'll just say the regional airlines are the last choice and sometimes eliminated from consideration from higher time pilot applicants because of the untenable wages and conditions. To me...that's a questionable practice for a company entrusted blindly by the public.
 
B767Driver said:
Yes...I deleted that post because I'm not going to get into this argument. I'll just say the regional airlines are the last choice and sometimes eliminated from consideration from higher time pilot applicants because of the untenable wages and conditions. To me...that's a questionable practice for a company entrusted blindly by the public.
Click to expand...

Well then there is the problem.

We need more help from those already in the industry to improve the QOL/wages, etc for the younger crowd.

We need appropriate ALPA representation, unlike the current leadership. The continued philosophy by many of the older generation pilots is that you had to do it this way, and so should us. Fine, great. But don't cry about regional wages, and not wanting to lose your dignity if/when you get furloughed, and have to move down to an RJ, or even a turboprop (gasp!) spot to support your family.

As soon as a collective group stops taking the high and mighty road, things might improve. Pilots are one profession, need to stand up as one and support each other. At least that's how I look at it, perhaps I'm wrong.
 
I agree 100%. It appears to be a simple lapse of concentration during the taxi to 22. Nothing more, nothing less. It sucks, yes, but it happens. :( Gotta check that DG before you roll. :( I'll shut up now, I'm merely a 7.4 hour student, with an air traffic background.
Click to expand...

More of a reason for me to be quiet. I'm over the 250 mark now, but with 36 years of automobile driving experience, I "California rolled" two stop signs today going home, and scratched my head wondering if locked the door before getting into my car to leave for dinner.

Lapses of judgement or concentration affect any and everyone. . .and my statement is neither a direct nor indirect correlation to what happened today. I'm still out of respect mourning the loss of many other's loved ones.
 
We need appropriate ALPA representation, unlike the current leadership. The continued philosophy by many of the older generation pilots is that you had to do it this way, and so should us. Fine, great. But don't cry about regional wages, and not wanting to lose your dignity if/when you get furloughed, and have to move down to an RJ spot to support your family.

As soon as a collective group stops taking the high and mighty road, things might improve.
Click to expand...

Whoa, that's quite a succinct and philosophical answer to a significantly convoluted situation. . .and unfortunately, unless something more concrete is provided, that's not the right answer.

Doug and many others hit the nail on the head when they said many newbies in the industry should attain a degree other than a non-aviation one. . .something like business/finance/accounting or perhaps an MBA. Unless you have a sound business sense/background, it's rather difficult to talk finances to those whose job it is to squeeze every little dollar into a profit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top