Lots of Entry Level Survey Jobs (CSEL w/ Instrument Rating to fly 172s for Pictometry)

A lot of good points being made in this thread. Regarding insurance, they do have a commercial non-owned insurance provider that offers $390 basic coverage for the year (AA reimburses $300 of that). Basically, if you hit a bird and crack your windscreen, you might be liable so that's what that insurance is for. If you lose your engine because of fuel exhaustion due to poor planning and you crash into someone's house and do damage, basic coverage has your back for $250k personal property. If you have a gear failure due to a maintenance issue, that's what the maintenance shop has insurance for. Say maintenance should have replaced your hydraulic lines and didn't, your gear doesn't come down, you gear up - you are not liable.

How much IMC do I log? So far I've logged about 4 hours. You could be in an area with crappier weather and log more or less. I haven't done too many relocation flights so there's been no need for me to. Technically you can depart 0 & 0, but we all know that's not the smartest thing to do. I've never been pressured to fly when I didn't feel safe though. In the interview, they ask you if you feel comfortable flying an approach to minimums. If people don't want to take off because of 1000' ceilings, then you lied about your personal minimums or abilities. If there's embedded storms, that's another thing and I would just say no.

You work a project until the work is done or something else pops up with a higher priority. Could be a few weeks to a few months. You have a window of time to fill for each project. You must account for all that time accordingly. You really don't have all the freedom they make it out to seem. If you just feel like not working, you better have a good excuse. No one is out there watching you (for the most part), but you have to take responsibility for what you do.

As for the per diem, I've been with people I enjoy enough (or can stand enough) to room with them so it hasn't been an issue for me to not spend the per diem. I've probably saved somewhere around $5000 just in per diem in a few months just because I was either home, had friends in a city with an extra room, or roomed up with another pilot or two in a suite large enough, getting rooms with a kitchen so we don't eat out every meal, etc. I realize I have to pay taxes on that but that's not even the pilot pay.
 
yrbroom said:
You work a project until the work is done or something else pops up with a higher priority. Could be a few weeks to a few months. You have a window of time to fill for each project. You must account for all that time accordingly. You really don't have all the freedom they make it out to seem. If you just feel like not working, you better have a good excuse. No one is out there watching you (for the most part), but you have to take responsibility for what you do.
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Well they're so hard up for pilots they're advertising still in the middle to late of September for pilots that I can't imagine they'd ever discriminate against a pilot for not going down to minimums. Everyone's done an IFR checkride in which they did go down to minimums, but they probably did them in planes with much more reliable avionics than what AA has in much of their fleet. Even when the maintenance was much better years ago I still had a radio failure, I still had issues with my glide slope being inop (I got it fixed and a month or so later another pilot flew it and chewed me out about it not working and for some reason we only had one glide slope on the plane and no GPS). I believe there's even an Aztec that doesn't have the normal 6 pack and is configured in some ridiculous arrangement. They're sending pilots all over the country to areas and weather systems they've never encountered and pressuring kids to go down to minimums which is beyond stupid, go look at the accident in New Mexico where the likely reason he crashed and will never walk again was that he took off overgross in a high density altitude airport and did he even lean out his mixture before take off? Also the line guy I talked to in Deming said the pilot was on crutches and why the hell was he even cleared to fly for Air America if that was the case?

Thankfully the guy that I did my interview flight with was totally understanding of cockiness and how easily it can get a low-time pilot killed and after all what's the urgency in this business? Did your bosses ever put a cap on hours flown in a day or are they still cool with pilots flying 14 to 16 (maybe 18, I'll have to look it up) hours a day (I've got the PDRs to prove it from my time there and unfortunately my longest day was up there) and somehow you want to trust their judgement on safety when they're totally neglecting things like fatigue?
 
srn121 said:
Did your bosses ever put a cap on hours flown in a day
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There's no cap on hours as far as I'm aware. The highest I've seen is 14, which is seriously ridiculous. After 10 hours I'm pretty worthless. They really will work you til you're dead here. 19 days in this month and I'm already at 120 hours. Apparently fatigue is not an option.
 
eblatner said:
What does Air Americas contract say about quitting early?
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If you quit early, you owe them an Early Termination Fee, which was $5,000 per my last contract. I'm not sure if it's been increased since then; it was only $2,500 when I started there. It is not prorated so if you leave even a day early you'll be on the hook for the full amount. If you stay beyond the end of the contract, you will be required to sign another one, unless it's only a short while like 1 month. From what I heard if you stayed after last season's contract you had to sign on for a whole year, not just for the summer like in the past.
 
It's $4000 if you give a months notice, $5000 otherwise. I believe all contracts are now 12 months also so your contract doesn't end in May/June and you can sign on for the summer. It's now October to October.
 
yrbroom said:
It's $4000 if you give a months notice, $5000 otherwise. I believe all contracts are now 12 months also so your contract doesn't end in May/June and you can sign on for the summer. It's now October to October.
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Glad to hear they're scrambling for pilots so badly when I hear of stuff like this. There was no guarantee of summer work in the past and there was nothing worse than hurricane standby in Daytona Beach where pilots weren't getting the $120 a day 'per diem' and were painting, mopping and doing whatever bitch work needed to be done so a year long contract sounds absolutely horrible. I think they finally offered a condo you can pay for, but it's like multiple people to a room. If they want to continue to demand more from their pilots while offering the same pay as always the start of the season's going to be an absolute mess even if they can staff every plane.
 
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srn121 said:
Glad to hear they're badly scrambling for pilots so badly when I hear of stuff like this. There was no guarantee of summer work in the past and there was nothing worse than hurricane standby in Daytona Beach where pilots weren't getting the $120 a day 'per diem' and were painting, mopping and doing whatever bitch work needed to be done so a year long contract sounds absolutely horrible. I think they finally offered a condo you can pay for, but it's like multiple people to a room. If they want to continue to demand more from their pilots while offering the same pay as always the start of the season's going to be an absolute mess even if they can staff every plane.
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TBH I would think at this point they're just trying to tread water until they can automate. With drone tech coming along so fast I don't see more than 5-10 years left of the "20 year old kid flying grids in a beater 172" model, other than some of the congested airspace stuff that needs a lot of coordination with ATC
 
Roger Roger said:
TBH I would think at this point they're just trying to tread water until they can automate. With drone tech coming along so fast I don't see more than 5-10 years left of the "20 year old kid flying grids in a beater 172" model, other than some of the congested airspace stuff that needs a lot of coordination with ATC
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Drone mapping will be coming for sure, but it's mostly just greed as some if not all of their competing vendors are offering more with each new season and they're doing the opposite. We all know how well cancelling classes and demanding more concessions from their pilot group went with Horizon and how many flights they're still having to cancel as a result.
 
Roger Roger said:
TBH I would think at this point they're just trying to tread water until they can automate. With drone tech coming along so fast I don't see more than 5-10 years left of the "20 year old kid flying grids in a beater 172" model, other than some of the congested airspace stuff that needs a lot of coordination with ATC
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I think the model will be around longer than you think, need a lot of leaps in different sectors to get anywhere remotely close to an airplane with a drone, in terms of efficiency.
They're probably trying to squeeze every drop out of the clapped out airplanes before they're scrapped, because I can't imagine the resale value of a skychicken with holes cut in the sides is too great right now.
 
They're not scrambling for pilots because of lack of applicants, that's for sure. It's more likely that they've been too busy with too much work which is why they're interviewing so late. If there's no work in the summer at the time, they can just fly you home too. No one is forcing you to stay in Daytona.
 
yrbroom said:
They're not scrambling for pilots because of lack of applicants, that's for sure. It's more likely that they've been too busy with too much work which is why they're interviewing so late. If there's no work in the summer at the time, they can just fly you home too. No one is forcing you to stay in Daytona.
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I've talked to a few people on this forum that already bailed after the interview call when they heard the details for themselves. Glad that they're letting pilots go home and not forcing them to stay in Daytona come summer time, but I'm assuming the pilots that go home would still be under contract and have to drop everything if they're needed later on and they wouldn't be paid unless they did need them?
 
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Roger Roger said:
TBH I would think at this point they're just trying to tread water until they can automate. With drone tech coming along so fast I don't see more than 5-10 years left of the "20 year old kid flying grids in a beater 172" model, other than some of the congested airspace stuff that needs a lot of coordination with ATC
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Survey pilots will absolutely be some of the first pilots to be replaced with automation. I'm not sure if any of Pictometry's vendors do drone survey right now, but I know Pictometry uses some drones in-house. When I worked for a picto vendor the drones were used for small projects where it didn't make sense to use a plane, like just a few buildings, but in time they will replace manned aircraft for most if not all survey operations.

A co-worker of mine actually owns a drone aerial survey business on the side. He told me he's able to charge clients something like $50 an hour if I remember correctly, while survey companies that use manned aircraft charge $4,000 per hour. Of course it takes more hours for a drone to cover the same amount of territory, but they can also map in worse weather since they fly at a much lower altitude. Human survey pilots don't stand a chance in the long run; soon human survey pilots will be every bit as obsolete as elevator operators.
 
Anyone else here headed to AA next month? Still haven't gotten a set start date. And yes it's October to October now. What do people typically do for health insurance?
 
eblatner said:
What does Air Americas contract say about quitting early?
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Its also fair to mention that there is a 5 year non compete clause.... YES FIVE YEARS, so if you ever want to do anything with aerial photography you are screwed. That could be anything from a pipeline patrol that requires a high time pilot or if you lose your medical and try to do drone work you're likely to get sued.
 
srn121 said:
I've talked to a few people on this forum that already bailed after the interview call when they heard the details for themselves. Glad that they're letting pilots go home and not forcing them to stay in Daytona come summer time, but I'm assuming the pilots that go home would still be under contract and have to drop everything if they're needed later on and they wouldn't be paid unless they did need them?
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From what I understand they have been interviewing 2-4 pilots a day for a month now to fill less than 50 slots. I bet there are more than a few who say no once they actually read. The sad thing is I would of loved the work but there is no way on this green earth that I could accept that contract. It is a good thing though, if enough prospective pilots say no maybe they will change their ways out of force.
 
yrbroom said:
They're not scrambling for pilots because of lack of applicants, that's for sure. It's more likely that they've been too busy with too much work which is why they're interviewing so late. If there's no work in the summer at the time, they can just fly you home too. No one is forcing you to stay in Daytona.
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I would be surprised if they ever did have a true shortage of applicants, to be honest, since they are one of the few well-known companies that will hire with a fresh commercial certificate. Low-time pilots are a dime a dozen even if there is supposedly a "pilot shortage". As bad as Air America is, the job market for low-time pilots is competitive enough that many low-timers will work for free to build time. I remember a few years ago on here a user was typographically fellating his employer for letting him fly their Apache unpaid. In that environment it's no surprise people go to Air America which at least does pay.

I don't think hurricane standby was ever mandatory; usually they require you to sign a special contract for it. Of course it is a Hobson's choice when the alternative is likely being unemployed for months. Anyone at Air America would be wise not to sign a hurricane standby contract, as I've said before it was easily one of the worst decisions I've ever made.
 
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