It's going that well, huh?
Lots of Entry Level Survey Jobs (CSEL w/ Instrument Rating to fly 172s for Pictometry)
- Thread starter srn121
- Start date
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Han Solo is right. You need a non-owners policy, which is not the same as a rental policy - with hull coverage - to get coverage against a subrogation. This is the main reason I don't rent airplanes from a local FBO, but do use their instructors and sim when I need it.
The 1099 issues I'm hearing about here are one thing, but telling your "employees" that they need separate insurance out of their pocket in furtherance of your business is....
....it's awful. That's the only word I can think of.
Sol Rosenburg
Well-Known Member
So Nick finally gave up the ghost and sold out to ground imaging?
Rosrex7
Well-Known Member
Anyone know where to locate such insurance coverage? I only see the AOPA CFI non owners coverage..
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av8tr1
"Never tell me the odds!"
I don't think it exists. If you are flying on company owned equipment the insurance industry expects the company to insure the aircraft "NOT EMPLOYEES". And just because AA calls you something other than an employee doesn't mean its correct.
Hiboglossi
The Most Depressing Person
As far as I know, AOPA and Avemco are the only providers of any sort of pilot's liability insurance in the U.S.A. I'd say your best bet is to call AVEMCO directly, explain your situation, and see if they offer a policy that would cover you. Like @av8tr1 said, this is a highly irregular situation (since by all rights Air America should be the one insuring you), so I can't guarantee they'll have a policy that would work.
I think most Air America pilots just didn't bother with insurance at all, but of course you could owe hundreds of thousands of dollars if you get in an accident, so you'll have to decide for yourself what level of risk you're willing to take on. When I was there a few pilots had renter's insurance under the erroneous belief it would protect them if anything happened (although at least one guy had it from before Air America as he was a frequent renter).
Best of luck with this situation, it sounds like you're committed to Air America at this point? I do hope it works out for you despite all the risk. It was a pretty fun job for the most part when I was there.
I looked out of curiosity and couldn't find a place where you could just buy it online. I thought I found some insurance shop that would provide it, but you'd have to call for a quote and details. Have you tried to get a hold of Jake to ask him their policy for the 2016-2017 season?
Rosrex7
Well-Known Member
Yeah I've been looKing around myself.. Everyone seems dumbfounded when I explain it. Training starts on Monday so I'll see what the options are (if any). I definitely don't want to be left with hanging with a 172 bar tab, so anything I can do to for a safety blanket, I'll look into it.
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z987k
Well-Known Member
Aviation insurance isn't like car insurance. There are brokers and underwriters, and some are both. You have to go through a broker, an underwriter will not talk to you. If you call multiple brokers, there's a good chance that they use the same underwriters, and they underwriters will not do multiple quotes for the same thing.
That all said AVEMCO is probably one of the most expensive places to get insurance. On my personal plane, they want 3x more than what I pay through a local broker.
If anyone will insure you for something like this, it's probably going to be a smaller local broker that can get Lloyds or another specialty shop to go in on it. It's a commercial operation you are talking about, so expect it to be very pricey. $5k a year would probably be a pretty good deal for hull and a standard 1 mil in liability.
Did he? Went out to lunch with him and Elsa when we had a project in '14 near ROC, they said they were looking to exit the biz soon.
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ScorpioStinger
Well-Known Member
Not hired by AA was the best thing to happen to me (like dollar shave club)... i gained experience elsewhere (part 135 cargo, SIC, and later Single Pilot Turbine PIC) that has helped me to become a much better and experienced pilot i otherwise would be.
Jake guy was awesome. But with the big guy, I VOICED and questioned the 1099 practices during my "interview". Big guy probably didnt like that much. I only voiced my opinion, as a job interview is suppose to be a 2 way interview. That's one sure sure way to get out of the "you must accept this job if it is OFFERED or you will be liable for the plane ride we paid for you to come interview."
Jake guy was awesome. But with the big guy, I VOICED and questioned the 1099 practices during my "interview". Big guy probably didnt like that much. I only voiced my opinion, as a job interview is suppose to be a 2 way interview. That's one sure sure way to get out of the "you must accept this job if it is OFFERED or you will be liable for the plane ride we paid for you to come interview."
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frankgh
Well-Known Member
I'v said this before so forgive me if I sound like a broken record; There are other vendors... Ground imagining looks promising IF they pay you for every day. If you are not getting paid for weather/maintenance days, that would suck. Otherwise the 56 a week with 16 at time and a half comes to about $66 a day with an opportunity to fly more, make more. Information has been conflicting here with one guy saying you only get paid on days you work and another guy said it is everyday.
That was probably the best way to get out of the gig. They need to fill a ton of spots and unless you're in a guard or reserve unit (there was some controversy about that too) they won't make any exceptions for you on day one and they don't really have the management in place to address pilot issues. That said I had heard last year they hired a female pilot and they might be slowly moving forward to revamping their system.
Glad you found a 135 SIC gig and things worked out well. I've seen a few that would've probably been better for the career than flying Picto.
Rosrex7
Well-Known Member
From th Avemco website:
Q: Will a non-owned policy protect me if I use a non-owned aircraft for other than my own pleasure and business use?
A: Generally, no. Renter's policies are meant to be for non-commercial activities; however, if you are a Certificated Flight Instructor you can purchase an endorsement that provides coverage while you give others dual flight instruction, flight reviews and check rides. The policy does not provide coverage if you use a rented aircraft for any activity for which you get money or other benefits, the exception being for CFIs as noted above. There is no coverage for carrying passengers or cargo for hire, rental, aerial photography, or any special uses like parachute jumping, banner towing, maintenance test flights and traffic patrol.
Q: Will a non-owned policy protect me if I use a non-owned aircraft for other than my own pleasure and business use?
A: Generally, no. Renter's policies are meant to be for non-commercial activities; however, if you are a Certificated Flight Instructor you can purchase an endorsement that provides coverage while you give others dual flight instruction, flight reviews and check rides. The policy does not provide coverage if you use a rented aircraft for any activity for which you get money or other benefits, the exception being for CFIs as noted above. There is no coverage for carrying passengers or cargo for hire, rental, aerial photography, or any special uses like parachute jumping, banner towing, maintenance test flights and traffic patrol.
No one here is claiming that a rental policy would protect you (Although there are other insurance policies that would, just not a rental one). If Air America's management is saying you won't be covered by them and that you should get a rental policy as one poster has claimed then I would seriously consider working somewhere else. If you're headed to training and this is a big concern for you I would contact Jake before hand to clarify things now as you will be under a lot of pressure to sign a contract when in person and for something you may not agree to or might not have ready entirely.
Hiboglossi
The Most Depressing Person
I would definitely recommend that anyone interested in Air America look into the other vendors instead. Pretty much all of them are listed in the first post of this thread, except it appears NSA may no longer exist.
It is definitely true that Air America says you should get a rental policy to be covered. Direct quote from my last contract: "Air America Flight Center strongly recommends that Contractor obtain renter's insurance covering Contractor while in possession and operational control of the Aircraft." [emphasis mine]
Sol Rosenburg
Well-Known Member
Saw a ton of the tails with new registration to ground imaging and their address. I talked with him on the phone about a year ago and seemed like he was still operational though it was in the summer
Hiboglossi
The Most Depressing Person
NSA was definitely still in operation for the 2015-16 season, a friend of mine flew for them then. But he left in May at the end of the season and I have no idea about after that.
pilotbry
Well-Known Member
As I understand it, NSA still exists with a couple of planes doing other small contracts but are definitely out of the Picto business and sold most of their planes to Williams/Ground Imaging.
Nick had a few planes doing pipeline patrol around the NE, I imagine that's an easy business to keep around for something to do during retirement.