Lost decade

drunkenbeagle said:
Great, we can get taxpayers out of the higher education finance business. But since we still need doctors, nurses, lawyers, engineers, school teachers and everything else, we will need to get that labor from somewhere. If it isn't here, we are going to import labor from the rest of the world. The consequence of that is that the kid who can't afford college here will also never get a good job either, because it will go to someone imported from Mexico or India or China.
Click to expand...

You won’t have a shortage of kids that want to become docs, nurses, lawyers, engineers, teachers. They will always find people for those fields.

Get the govt out of the guaranteed student loan business, and watch tuition rates come crashing down.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Great, we can get taxpayers out of the higher education finance business. But since we still need doctors, nurses, lawyers, engineers, school teachers and everything else, we will need to get that labor from somewhere. If it isn't here, we are going to import labor from the rest of the world. The consequence of that is that the kid who can't afford college here will also never get a good job either, because it will go to someone imported from Mexico or India or China.
Click to expand...

You won’t have a shortage of kids that want to become docs, nurses, lawyers, engineers, teachers. They will always find people for those fields.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Get the govt out of the guaranteed student loan business, and watch tuition rates come crashing down.
Click to expand...

Well, sure, that's half of the problem. The other half is that, as tertiary education becomes a social necessity, there's basically no excuse for it not being state-funded. The state funds primary and secondary education, and at one time in our history, those were sufficient for a person to find meaningful work and be a useful member of society. Those days are gone. A high school graduate, absent any other self-funded education is good for maybe parking your car, and cars are just about parking themselves already.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Well, sure, that's half of the problem. The other half is that, as tertiary education becomes a social necessity, there's basically no excuse for it not being state-funded. The state funds primary and secondary education, and at one time in our history, those were sufficient for a person to find meaningful work and be a useful member of society. Those days are gone. A high school graduate, absent any other self-funded education is good for maybe parking your car, and cars are just about parking themselves already.
Click to expand...

A high school graduate can at least park a car. What can a BS in basket weaving do? He can park a car - with 80k debt on his head.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
A high school graduate can at least park a car. What can a BS in basket weaving do? He can park a car - with 80k debt on his head.
Click to expand...

I double-majored in Philosophy and the History of Math and Science (to be fair, I wasn't given a choice, everything was mandatory). Those majors have basically zero practical *fiduciary* application outside of teaching, but they enriched my life beyond any measure I can come up with.

It amuses me to no end that the people who cry the loudest about education being "practical" are the same people who imagine that they venerate the Founding Fathers, the American Experiment, etc. Lulz. Jefferson, Washington, Madison, Monroe? All of them were basically Liberal Arts Majors, in the modern parlance. They studied the Trivium and the Quadrivium. They studied subjects which were intended to make them intelligent, informed Citizens, capable of making (or dismantling) a cogent argument for (or against) any thesis.

A democratic Republic rises (or falls) on the ability of the people who constitute it being able to make rational, logical assessment of the obligations of a Citizen to their fellow Citizens, as well as the reciprocal. We are seeing the extrapolated end result of your worker-bee education plan play out in real time, as people with PhDs are encouraging people to imbibe horse-dewormers in order to counteract a VIRUS. Of course their doctorates are in bridge-building, but no matter, they're DOCTORS, just like the guy in the white coat!

An education in rigorous, analytical, non-vocational thought ought to be mandatory, imho. In any case, though, what it certainly isn't is laughable or silly. We are being forced to bear witness to the evidence as I type.
 
Boris Badenov said:
I double-majored in Philosophy and the History of Math and Science (to be fair, I wasn't given a choice, everything was mandatory). Those majors have basically zero practical *fiduciary* application outside of teaching, but they enriched my life beyond any measure I can come up with.

It amuses me to no end that the people who cry the loudest about education being "practical" are the same people who imagine that they venerate the Founding Fathers, the American Experiment, etc. Lulz. Jefferson, Washington, Madison, Monroe? All of them were basically Liberal Arts Majors, in the modern parlance. They studied the Trivium and the Quadrivium. They studied subjects which were intended to make them intelligent, informed Citizens, capable of making (or dismantling) a cogent argument for (or against) any thesis.

A democratic Republic rises (or falls) on the ability of the people who constitute it being able to make rational, logical assessment of the obligations of a Citizen to their fellow Citizens, as well as the reciprocal. We are seeing the extrapolated end result of your worker-bee education plan play out in real time, as people with PhDs are encouraging people to imbibe horse-dewormers in order to counteract a VIRUS. Of course their doctorates are in bridge-building, but no matter, they're DOCTORS, just like the guy in the white coat!

An education in rigorous, analytical, non-vocational thought ought to be mandatory, imho. In any case, though, what it certainly isn't is laughable or silly. We are being forced to bear witness to the evidence as I type.
Click to expand...
I wanted to type something like this but you did it better than I could have.
 
Boris Badenov said:
I double-majored in Philosophy and the History of Math and Science (to be fair, I wasn't given a choice, everything was mandatory). Those majors have basically zero practical *fiduciary* application outside of teaching, but they enriched my life beyond any measure I can come up with.

It amuses me to no end that the people who cry the loudest about education being "practical" are the same people who imagine that they venerate the Founding Fathers, the American Experiment, etc. Lulz. Jefferson, Washington, Madison, Monroe? All of them were basically Liberal Arts Majors, in the modern parlance. They studied the Trivium and the Quadrivium. They studied subjects which were intended to make them intelligent, informed Citizens, capable of making (or dismantling) a cogent argument for (or against) any thesis.

A democratic Republic rises (or falls) on the ability of the people who constitute it being able to make rational, logical assessment of the obligations of a Citizen to their fellow Citizens, as well as the reciprocal. We are seeing the extrapolated end result of your worker-bee education plan play out in real time, as people with PhDs are encouraging people to imbibe horse-dewormers in order to counteract a VIRUS. Of course their doctorates are in bridge-building, but no matter, they're DOCTORS, just like the guy in the white coat!

An education in rigorous, analytical, non-vocational thought ought to be mandatory, imho. In any case, though, what it certainly isn't is laughable or silly. We are being forced to bear witness to the evidence as I type.
Click to expand...

That’s great, but at the end of the day, it’s not paying the bills or the 80k college loan (unless you get a teaching job like you said).

College roommate majored in Political Science. Good guy, can hold an argument, analyze, etc. but guess what, he’s working on computers. Nothing to do with his degree. I’ve seen HS grads makegood educated decisions and bungle some up, and I’ve seen PHDs make good decisions and bungle some up. You’re not going to win the informed citizen argument about college kids today. College kids these days are affected by the woke movement. Very little critical thinking of their own, just talking points of what they should believe in.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
College kids these days.........Very little critical thinking of their own, just talking points of what they should believe in.
Click to expand...

That is a true statement about many Americans right now. I'd say particularly in the age bracket that doesn't understand social media, who seem to believe that anything they see on social media is legitimate information. The perfect targets for the Russian misinformation and deep fake barrage that is crippling our country at the moment, combined with homegrown morons who are pushing other falsehoods for either financial gain or political ends. I'd submit that the younger generation isn't as "woke" as we might be led to believe (at least the ones I know), and I'd also say that there is truly little difference in the widespread failure of critical thinking between generations.
 
///AMG said:
That is a true statement about many Americans right now. I'd say particularly in the age bracket that doesn't understand social media, who seem to believe that anything they see on social media is legitimate information. The perfect targets for the Russian misinformation and deep fake barrage that is crippling our country at the moment, combined with homegrown morons who are pushing other falsehoods for either financial gain or political ends.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I’ve long held that social media is our societal downfall. It basically gives a voice to anyone, even the worst of idiots, to basically spew whatever they wish and have the ability to attract an audience.
 
CFI A&P said:
Another change between the lost decade and recovery is the generation of pilots that have choices/ don't have to do much time building or risk their life with a 'cut my teeth' job anymore. The new path became college -> a little instruction, pipeline patrol or fly the family's C182 as needed -> R-ATP and land at a 121 regional. Gone are the days of needing find that intermediate step of time building by flying checks in a clapped out C210 or lab specimens in a Baron... 10 years ago you still had to buy blocks of multi time if you weren't situated as a busy MEI.

Times have changed.
Click to expand...
On the flip side of that, before you could get hired at an airline with 300 hours whereas today you have to get to 1500. One of the old members here was hired into a Saab with under 400 hours I believe.
 
///AMG said:
Yep, I think we are witnessing that more and more each day.
Click to expand...
I was driving to work last week and thought “what if everyone had an electronic marquee on the back of their car that in a few words say a message to those around then”. At first it would be marketed as a way to say “thanks for letting me in”, by the end of the week road rage and homicides would be up by 500%””. I feel like social media is similar.
 
Kingairer said:
On the flip side of that, before you could get hired at an airline with 300 hours whereas today you have to get to 1500. One of the old members here was hired into a Saab with under 400 hours I believe.
Click to expand...

That is true. I know several friends that were hired sub-500 hours at 121 regionals, and that comment wasn’t intended to be a slight at them. That’s jut how the industry worked then.
 
Stone Cold said:
I literally had a career military guy argue with me tonight about the lost decade and timing in this industry. He had a former Mesa guy agreeing with him that timing isn't everything in this industry. Both said the lost decade didn't exist. I asked the military guy what he knew about the lost decade and he said it didn't matter what he knew or when he started paying attention to civilian aviation.

How are people so stupid that are supposedly smart?

The real question is am I going to have an aneurysm flying here with stupidity for the next decade until I "retire"??
Click to expand...
It's all about perspective. The lost decade is relevant only to those who attempted to start or advance their careers in the midst of it. To those who came along before or after, or with different ambitions, it's a footnote in history. It's difficult to relate to an experience you haven't lived.

What's he supposed to do? Wring his hands and shed tears for all the poor souls who had to spend a few extra years in the right seat of whatever? He's got his own set of problems to deal with.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
A high school graduate can at least park a car. What can a BS in basket weaving do? He can park a car - with 80k debt on his head.
Click to expand...

Restore bankruptcy protection on student loans and the entire issue will solve itself. No more loans for average students to go to garbage colleges = jobs that shouldn’t require a degree will stop requiring them because they can’t find labor = tuition will begin to follow the supply and demand model = useless degrees and courses that don’t produce gainfully employed graduates go away because they won’t get their loan money back.

“But you’re limiting people’s ability to go to college!” Yes, and you’re welcome. It’s not for everyone. Poor kid managing the Starbucks across the street has six figures of debt he will never pay off because nobody limited his ability to go to college.
 
TWP said:
Restore bankruptcy protection on student loans and the entire issue will solve itself. No more loans for average students to go to garbage colleges = jobs that shouldn’t require a degree will stop requiring them because they can’t find labor = tuition will begin to follow the supply and demand model = useless degrees and courses that don’t produce gainfully employed graduates go away because they won’t get their loan money back.
Click to expand...

This. Expose Universities to risk, and they go into high speed rewind.

As to @Roger Roger ’s point, he’s dead on. Any visit to a state funded university, and you’ll see military grade spending on a level you won’t believe.

And they’re all VERY hostile to labor. Hello, irony.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top