Lost Comms IFR

[bc2209]

I've used the MEA mnemonic for altitude in lost comms this whole time. But now teaching it i'm starting to doubt myself.

The M?

I was always taught that is was either MEA/MOCA for the airway or OROCA if off of an airway. However, reading the actual reg it seems like this might be more of a 1000 feet above non-mountainous and 2000 above mountainous?

2) The minimum altitude (converted, if appropriate, to minimum flight level as prescribed in 14 CFR Section 91.121(c)) for IFR operations; or

 

[thevideographer]

Don't overthink it. The MEA is the minimum altitude for IFR operations along an airway, if you're on an airway.

 

[Clint H]

My school taught it:

Minimum
Expected
Assigned

That covered the possibility of on or off-airway routes.

On airways, MEAs and MOCAs should already take the required 1,000' and 2,000' into account.

 

[gotWXdagain]

Here's one that the regs don't really explain well: Lost comms, VMC clear and a million, and above FL180. Thoughts?

 

[z987k]

Here's one that the regs don't really explain well: Lost comms, VMC clear and a million, and above FL180. Thoughts?

Satphone or Sattext.

 

[gotWXdagain]

Satphone or Sattext.

We have those!

 

[RamRise]

Here's one that the regs don't really explain well: Lost comms, VMC clear and a million, and above FL180. Thoughts?

I'd probably Squawk 7600 and leave class A , divert to a non towered airport.

 

[z987k]

I'd probably Squawk 7600 and leave class A , divert to a non towered airport.

That'll confuse the hell out of ATC. How about we just do what the AIM says?

 

[TrustMeI'maPilot]

That'll confuse the hell out of ATC. How about we just do what the AIM says?

If he's in VMC what's the problem?

14 CFR 91.185(b) VFR conditions. If the failure occurs in VFR conditions, or if VFR conditions are encountered after the failure, each pilot shall continue the flight under VFR and land as soon as practicable.

 

[T/O w/FSII]

If he's in VMC what's the problem?

14 CFR 91.185(b) VFR conditions. If the failure occurs in VFR conditions, or if VFR conditions are encountered after the failure, each pilot shall continue the flight under VFR and land as soon as practicable.

No such thing as VFR in IFR only airspace. VMC does not equal VFR.

 

[TrustMeI'maPilot]

No such thing as VFR in IFR only airspace. VMC does not equal VFR.

It says VFR Conditions, in other words VMC.

 

[chrisreedrules]

I've lost all electrical power in a 210 once while in IMC. Just kept flying on my original clearance until I hit VMC. Then I landed at an untowered field and gave center a call.

 

[T/O w/FSII]

It says VFR Conditions, in other words VMC.

Yea, and one of the conditions are also being outside of class A airspace.

 

[TrustMeI'maPilot]

Yea, and one of the conditions are also being outside of class A airspace.

Read the AIM again, it applies to class A also. The whole point is just be safe, don't over think it. If you're at FL350 on the east coast going to JFK, probably smarter to just continue so you don't conflict with traffic. If you're VMC at FL200 over Kansas, and the weather at your destination is IMC, you should stay in VMC and land at another airport.

Pertinent parts from the AIM, emphasis mine:

6−4−1. Two-way Radio Communications Failure

a. It is virtually impossible to provide regulations and procedures applicable to all possible situations associated with two-way radio communications failure. During two-way radio communications failure, when confronted by a situation not covered in the regulation, pilots are expected to exercise good judgment in whatever action they elect to take. Should the situation so dictate they should not be reluctant to use the emergency action contained in 14 CFR Section 91.3(b).


2. VFR conditions. If the failure occurs in VFR conditions, or if VFR conditions are encountered after the failure, each pilot must continue the flight under VFR and land as soon as practicable.

NOTE−

This procedure also applies when two-way radio failure occurs while operating in Class A airspace. The primary objective of this provision in 14 CFR Section 91.185 is to preclude extended IFR operation by these aircraft within the ATC system...

 

[RamRise]

That'll confuse the hell out of ATC. How about we just do what the AIM says?

Not sure what you're suggesting exactly

So I'm supposed to stay in class A , where 2-way radio communication at all times is required ? And continue my flight ... At IFR altitudes to my planned airport? I think if you're in VMC it trumps the AVEF and MEA aspects of lost comms procedures.

 

[mshunter]

I've lost all electrical power in a 210 once while in IMC. Just kept flying on my original clearance until I hit VMC. Then I landed at an untowered field and gave center a call.

No electrical power, how'd you stay on an airway, track a radial, etc.?

 

[splash]

[

QUOTE="mshunter, post: 2560737, member: 13125"]No electrical power, how'd you stay on an airway, track a radial, etc.?[/QUOTE]

 

[chrisreedrules]

No electrical power, how'd you stay on an airway, track a radial, etc.?[/QUOTE

No electrical power, how'd you stay on an airway, track a radial, etc.?

Alternator failed and we were on the battery for a few. Fore flight and an iPad work wonders in a situation like that

 

[Tommay85]

Don't ever expect ATC to know what lost com procedures are either. They don't seem to...

"xxxnumbers, who told you to climb???". "My clearance did, sir!"

 

[FM_Weasel]

Don't ever expect ATC to know what lost com procedures are either. They don't seem to...

"xxxnumbers, who told you to climb???". "My clearance did, sir!"

Wait, how'd you have this conversation without comms?

As ATC, we know lost comm procedures are inherently unpredictable. We are going to try and keep people out of the way and hope you reestablish comms or land quickly. The longer the problem persists, the more time we have to predict and investigate what you might do.