Looks like California is now regulating flight schools

[Mike H]

I don't see it that way.

Of course you don't- you think more regulations are good for business.

It's going to be a bonanza for those flight schools that do comply with the regulations because there will be less competition.

No it won't- at best it'll be just one more expense the state is piling on them.

And the one person "less competition" is NOT good for is the customer- in this case the flight student. Those who can pay more will. Those who can't pay more will ultimately not be paying anything, period. They'll quit flying altogether and that "advantage of less competition" you fantasize about goes away. In other words, it only ends up as fewer flight schools competing for still fewer students.

 

[vikingair]

T
I would be willing to pay $7.50 per $1000 to "insure" my flight school tuition. Ask the students from Silver State, Jet University, Tab Express or RAA if they would have paid the $7.50?

If we did not have scammers in this industry then we would not need these regulations. Unfortunately with the money in this industry, the scammers have come out and been able to get away with stealing students tuition money for decades. Now we finally have the regulation. That's how things work.

I'll have to read this but I don't think anyone needs to get thier panties bunched about this as it sounds like it only applies if you charge tuition. A school that charges after the flight should be free and clear. Don't require $50k up, don't worry about it.
Joe

:clap:

Sadly this happens all too often in our "industry. It happened at the flight school I was attending in 2000 though luckily I had no money on account. I was in Merced CA when American Aviation did the same to about 100 students. I wasn't assoociated with the school but I saw the day when the city evicted them from the apartments the city leased to the flight school because the owner hadn't paid the utility bills. 2 years later there are still piles of stuff left in the hallways and rooms.

http://forums.jetcareers.com/flight...s-fbo/67040-asa-american-school-aviation.html

Sure..$5000 might be prohibitive for some operations but I can't think of anything more costly to aviation than flight schools that run amuck and steal tens of thousands of dollars from prospective students. It gives us all a black eye.

 

[Mike H]

I can't think of anything more costly to aviation than flight schools that run amuck and steal tens of thousands of dollars from prospective students. .

How about no flight schools at all? Think that would be great for aviation?

Far better to let the government steal from prospective students, eh?

 

[RICHARD5]

Its also a money grab by the state. $5,000 application fee, and .75% of all revenues. I'm thinking the dollar signs were on the minds of the lawmakers not 'students best interests'.

There goes any one man flight instructors.

I agree. The state is broke and has been actively looking into creative and novel ideas to generate new cash.

 

[RICHARD5]

Ha! American at MER wanted to make me their "Asst Chief Pilot" beginning in 2002. For almost 3 yrs they tried to recruit me for that BS position. My main duty would be to hoodwink, I mean, speak with the student families to placate them and talk them into sending more money. My secondary duty would be to whip the students to get them to show a minimal amount of consistent progress in order to use that to show the familes things are bumping right along.

 

[aloft]

Yeah, Utah is famous for their many large flight schools

Oh wait...

Utah's flight training industry is doing just fine, thank you. Three college aviation programs and several small flight schools--including three helicopter flight schools.

What Utah lacks are low-timer flying jobs other than instructing.

CA's new regulation protects students from unscrupulous scam artists. Why would anyone have a problem with that?

 

[Mike H]

Utah's flight training industry is doing just fine, thank you. Three college aviation programs and several small flight schools--including three helicopter flight schools.

What Utah lacks are low-timer flying jobs other than instructing.

Not to disparage Utah, but take away the university sponsored programs and you have several small flight schools. Not remotely comparable with California.

 

[TXTBOOK]

CA's new regulation protects students from unscrupulous scam artists. Why would anyone have a problem with that?

No one has a problem with protecting from scam artists. I think the issue is that it creates a financial burden on a hurting industry in a hurting economy. Just a give and take, really.

 

[Socal321]

CA's new regulation protects students from unscrupulous scam artists. Why would anyone have a problem with that?

It's very simple, don't give all your money up front to a scam artist. It's not very hard to do, just go to a reputable school.

 

[Mike H]

Scam artists rarely screw more than a few unfortunates for a short a time before they go out of business- regulations screw everybody and almost never go away

 

[TXTBOOK]

It's very simple, don't give all your money up front to a scam artist. It's not very hard to do, just go to a reputable school.

To play devil's advocate, the same thing can be said about seat belt laws. It's simple, wear a seat belt because it can save your life. But we still have a law for it.

 

[JOEFRIDAY2]

It's very simple, don't give all your money up front to a scam artist. It's not very hard to do, just go to a reputable school.

It will be so much easier to find a reputable flight school in California now because they will have a license from the Bureau of Private Post Secondary Education in Sacramento.

The California school will have passed a financial background check and the students tuition will be protected by the California Student Tuition Recovery Fund.

The student can then concentrate on his flight lessons and not have to worry about if the school is going out of business.

If $5000 if going to put a flight school out of business then I wouldn't want to go there anyway and spend $30,000-$70,000 to get my ratings.

Joe

 

[TXTBOOK]

That's a solid point, but there's a fundamental issue with the fact that the state of California is attempting to raise revenue by adding financial burden to the fight training industry in the state (which is already hurting).

Is this the time for this?

The other issue, like you mentioned, is that I, and I would expect many others, might not know exactly the magnitude of a $5,000 application fee on the average flight school. Maybe that's nothing, but maybe that means they can't pay rent/property tax/whatever next "billing cycle".

 

[seagull]

It won't be a problem. The big schools will leave California, as most of their students travel to go to them anyway. The smaller schools will mostly shut down. Flying will become more of a "rich man's sport" in California, which will give more incentive to lawmakers in that state to find new ways to tax aviation.

Too bad for those "airport kids", like I once was. They'll lose out big time, as this WILL increase the costs for those that remain. Very sad.

Give it 5 years. On the plus side, Joey here might learn something about actual economics, so we have that going for us...

 

[vikingair]

How about no flight schools at all? Think that would be great for aviation?

Far better to let the government steal from prospective students, eh?

You're an idiot if you think this will shut down all the flight schools. In fact, its not even directed at flight schools per se. I bet you haven't even read the bill and who it applies to. But in the land of the free you have the RIGHT to vote with your feet and never step foot in or start a flight school in CA. There are 48 other states with the same airspace and NO ONE owes you the California weather. Showing a brochure to a prospective student pilot in India or China with a picture of a beach and sunny palm trees isn't a right. Most of them really want to train in Detroit anyways.

Now I hate defending CA..as a state it does some insanely stupid things and more often than not I think it should be cordoned off like Escape from LA and only Snake Plissken can have a flight school. But that's as irrational as thinking this somehow equates to the Government stealing from students.

 

[amjon]

You're an idiot if you think this will shut down all the flight schools. In fact, its not even directed at flight schools per se. I bet you haven't even read the bill and who it applies to. But in the land of the free you have the RIGHT to vote with your feet and never step foot in or start a flight school in CA. There are 48 other states with the same airspace and NO ONE owes you the California weather. Showing a brochure to a prospective student pilot in India or China with a picture of a beach and sunny palm trees isn't a right. Most of them really want to train in Detroit anyways.

Now I hate defending CA..as a state it does some insanely stupid things and more often than not I think it should be cordoned off like Escape from LA and only Snake Plissken can have a flight school. But that's as irrational as thinking this somehow equates to the Government stealing from students.

We have beaches and palm trees in Florida (and plenty of flight schools too).

 

[vikingair]

If all the flight schools went out of business then being a pilot would be in high demand. How's that for economics! Well except for us lowly instructors.

 

[RICHARD5]

Whatever monies are charged by the state will simply be rolled over to the cost of doing business. It will be passed on to the student/customer.

This talk of law and protection is only tangental and misleading. F'rintance, how often are existing laws enforced? Seatbelt laws....hahaha. They are only after the fact (an accident) found in or not in compliance.

So...in the matter at hand, will a newly established state regulation to govern flight schools be enforced before or after the fact, ie, after students are "taken"?

Do not avenues of redress already exist for a student who is financially harmed by a flight school? How will a new regulatory process aid such a student?

This is nothing but a money grab by a state too meek/politically correct to address the true causes of it's financial imprudence.

 

[JOEFRIDAY2]

That's a solid point, but there's a fundamental issue with the fact that the state of California is attempting to raise revenue by adding financial burden to the fight training industry in the state (which is already hurting).

Is this the time for this?

It's past time for this. Flight school students have already lost MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in California. How many more MILLIONS OF DOLLARS would need to be stolen from students before regulation should be required?

The other issue, like you mentioned, is that I, and I would expect many others, might not know exactly the magnitude of a $5,000 application fee on the average flight school. Maybe that's nothing, but maybe that means they can't pay rent/property tax/whatever next "billing cycle".

If a school can not pay their rent or property tax then they can not meet the financial requirements to be in the flight school business and they will have no reason to pay the $5000 because their application would be denied.

 

[JOEFRIDAY2]

We have beaches and palm trees in Florida (and plenty of flight schools too).

Don't be surprised if flight school regulation comes to Florida since students have lost over ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS in Florida over the past 10 years to flight schools that have stolen their money and not provided the training.

It's coming folks. Get ready.

Joe