looking to split time

thehobbit

Well-Known Member
I have a cessna 150 and am looking to split time with someone in central florida, the aircraft is based out of sanford. I provide the plane you provide for the oil and fuel. take turns as safety pilot. I have my private and am working towards ifr. the empty weight is 1125 and max weight is 1600 and i weight 210. so I'm looking for someone who is the same or less. shot me and email at pcmusicpack@yahoo.com if interested. i am able to fly everyday until about mid Febuary as i am on vacation.
 
this may be a dumb question, but how much fuel does it take? By your numbers and my calculations:

1600 max weight
-1125 empty weight
475 left for pax and fuel
-210 for you
265 left for pax and fuel
-175 someone less than you
90 lbs for fuel/6

only 15 gallons????


yikes, doesn't sound like a 150 is good for splitting time especially with a couple of 200 pounders.....

Hopefully you can find someone.

Welcome to JC.
 
I will offer up the same deal in Northern Florida or will pick you up for a long X-C. I have a nice cherokee 160, 990 pound useful load so no weight issue.
 
If I remember right, a C150 holds around 22 gal of fuel - with 2 gal unusable. 15 gallons would be a 75% fuel load, and I think they burn around 5-6 an hour.

(If I got the numbers wrong, sorry! It's been a while since I've flown one.)
 
Joe, I may take you up on that in a few months after I earn my PPL, if you are willing to fly to SC.
I will offer up the same deal in Northern Florida or will pick you up for a long X-C. I have a nice cherokee 160, 990 pound useful load so no weight issue.
 
I have a cessna 150 and am looking to split time with someone in central florida, the aircraft is based out of sanford. I provide the plane you provide for the oil and fuel. take turns as safety pilot. I have my private and am working towards ifr. the empty weight is 1125 and max weight is 1600 and i weight 210. so I'm looking for someone who is the same or less. shot me and email at pcmusicpack@yahoo.com if interested. i am able to fly everyday until about mid Febuary as i am on vacation.

Before you get too much farther, I strongly advise you to retract your offer. What you have stated is blatantly illegal. Period. Since you own the airplane, the only expenses you can share are those directly attributable to the flight: fuel, oil, and landing/servicing/parking/etc. fees. As a private pilot you may never, ever, ever pay less than your pro rata share of the direct operating costs. In a privately owned C-150, that means you always have to pay at least 50% of the fuel, oil & fees. As a bonus, you get to pay for all the indirect costs all by yourself since you are the owner. It sucks, I know, since the direct costs are only about half of the total cost of flying an airplane, but that's how the regs read.

Section 61.113: Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command.

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (g) of this section, no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft.
(b) A private pilot may, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft in connection with any business or employment if:
(1) The flight is only incidental to that business or employment; and
(2) The aircraft does not carry passengers or property for compensation or hire.
(c) A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees.
(d) A private pilot may act as pilot in command of a charitable, nonprofit, or community event flight described in §91.146, if the sponsor and pilot comply with the requirements of §91.146.
(e) A private pilot may be reimbursed for aircraft operating expenses that are directly related to search and location operations, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees, and the operation is sanctioned and under the direction and control of:
(1) A local, State, or Federal agency; or
(2) An organization that conducts search and location operations.
(f) A private pilot who is an aircraft salesman and who has at least 200 hours of logged flight time may demonstrate an aircraft in flight to a prospective buyer.
(g) A private pilot who meets the requirements of §61.69 may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft towing a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle.

This is one of the times where it's better to be a renter than an owner. If you rent, you can split the rental bill plus any gas, oil, and fees that were not part of the rental bill.

A word of caution: this is not an area the FAA takes lightly. If they find you guilty of holding out or exercising commercial privileges with a private certificate, you are looking at certain enforcement which could have disastrous consequences to your flying career. In the long run, the few hundred dollars you could have saved by letting someone else buy all the gas pales in comparison to the financial impact a violation/suspension/revocation will have on your future income potential, not to mention the legal fees you will dish out to respond to the FAA's action.

If you find someone who wants to split a significant amount of time with you, you might consider selling him part of the airplane. If you both own the plane, then you can split all the costs in accordance with your partnership agreement. As the owners, you could split all the indirect costs, and as two private pilots you may both split the direct costs for the times when you are both flying. If you file a bill of sale with the FAA for $5 then you're both listed as the owners and it's no longer considered holding out. How much you sell some part of the airplane to him and the cost per flight hour is completely up to the partnership. (For example, I have a friend with a Bonanza in partnership -- according to their agreement it's ~$200/mo plus $10 per flight hour plus gas.) Since you are the principle owner, you get to make the rules so long as someone is willing to accept those rules. If this might be something you would consider then go to the AOPA's web page and search for airplane partnerships. They have some good resources there.

Be smart. If you're just flying with someone who doesn't own the airplane, the most they can pay you is 50% of the gas, oil & fees.
 
:yeahthat:

Before my plane was destroyed, another guy on here and I used to use my club aircraft to build time. I would charge him 1/2 of the hourly rate my club charged me, but didn't charge him anything towards my club dues or any of that.
 
Rightooo... I didn't read closely enough the original post.. My offer as has been said here before is for your SHARE, not the entire bill and my costs are around $50 an hour fuel and oil. JOE
 
As a follow up, I am assuming that the original poster meant the same as I. WHAT A GREAT OFFER, THANKS JC! What a great opportunity for a low time pilot to meet some cool people, build some hours and have a great time for around $25 an hour. I think you would be hard pressed to find anywhere that would rent you a nice IFR airplane for $25 an hour so you could timebuild. I hope someone takes advantage!
 
Rightooo... I didn't read closely enough the original post.. My offer as has been said here before is for your SHARE, not the entire bill and my costs are around $50 an hour fuel and oil. JOE

As soon as I get a new ride here in a month or two, I would be interested in flying up north to meet up with you. I'll keep in touch.
 
As a follow up, I am assuming that the original poster meant the same as I....

My offer as has been said here before is for your SHARE, not the entire bill and my costs are around $50 an hour fuel and oil. JOE

I hope that's what b3181981 now wants to do, but that's not what he said in his ad:

I provide the plane you provide for the oil and fuel. take turns as safety pilot. I have my private and am working towards ifr.
 
thanks for the info Nihon-Ni but i don't think that is right the FAR clearly states what you have said it is just that the rules say passenger. is the other pilot a passenger if he or she is also the pic by being the safety pilot or by me being the safety pilot and the other under the hood. also what is an airport expenditure? is that parking? or towing, or have a mechanic come out and look under the hood when you have a mechanical problem on a cross country? to me their are rules that are very, very strict no nonsense and their are rules that are grey either way thanks for the heads up but I think I'll call the local FSDO for them to clarify it for me.
 
Calling the FSDO is the best option. If there is room for interpretation in this rule, it's only your local FSDO's interpretation that matters.

I found the below clip in the now-defunct FAQ that might be of interest to you. The question isn't exactly the same as yours, but I think the answer sheds some light on one FAA guy's interpretation of this reg. It worthy to note, however, that John Lynch's excellent FAQ list is no longer endorsed by the FAA and they've removed it from their website. You can find copies of it on the internet if you search for it, and it's helpful in certain situations, but asking your local FSDO is the best way to go.

QUESTION: In the context of operations conducted by the Civil Air Patrol, the revised § 61.113(e) provides that a private pilot may be reimbursed “....for aircraft operating expenses that are directly related to search and location operations, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees...” This has given rise to some troubling questions. For example, if a CAP member, who is a private pilot, rents an airplane to assist with a search operation, it seems clear under the regulation he may be reimbursed his out-of-pocket “...fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees...” So far so good, the CAP member private pilot has not lost any money. But what if the same CAP member owns his own airplane--was it the intent of the new regulation that such a pilot may rent it to CAP to recover his out-of pocket costs or was the intention of the new rule to require such a private pilot member of CAP to either not fly the mission or assume the aircraft operating expenses himself ?

Another troubling question is, if CAP wants a member, who is a private pilot, to give orientation flights to its cadets members, or fly himself or other CAP members to a CAP meeting or participate in training flights, was it the intent of the new rule that such flights be treated as “directly related to search & location operations” ? If not, is there some way the private pilot can be reimbursed the same out-of-pocket “...fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees...” ? Or is the intent and effect of the new rule to force a private pilot volunteer to CAP to assume or part of that out-of-pocket financial burden himself or forego making the flight?

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.113(e); The answer is no, ownership costs are not reimbursable costs. The rulemaking team that drafted this rule specifically intended not to include ownership costs in reimbursable costs. The decision was based on the realization that trying to establish what would be REASONABLE reimbursement ownership costs was impossible to establish. Additionally, the decision was based on the conditions and limitations that were contained in past grants of exemption from the old § 61.118 that was the basis for adopting § 61.113.

Ref. § 61.113(a); No, there is no way for a private pilot to recover such costs. The rulemaking team that drafted this rule did not consider expanding those kinds of privileges to private pilots. With what was adopted in the new § 61.113, the line between the privileges and limitations of the private pilot vs. the commercial pilot is getting more and more narrow! However, the Civil Air Patrol has petitioned for a grant of exemption and I know your petition is being processed at this time.
{Q&A-162}

 
First let me be clear that I am willing to split time with JCers in my paid for airplane for half of FUEL/OIL COST. Paying it forward, not trying to get free time.

That said, this thread makes for interesting discussion. Hypothetically, if I own a plane and wanted to rent that plane to someone for X amount of dollars per hour and then agreed to let them safety pilot with me and I for them would that be an acceptable practice? Not my intention, just curious if that would circumvent the pro rata share issue?
 
First let me be clear that I am willing to split time with JCers in my paid for airplane for half of FUEL/OIL COST. Paying it forward, not trying to get free time.

That said, this thread makes for interesting discussion. Hypothetically, if I own a plane and wanted to rent that plane to someone for X amount of dollars per hour and then agreed to let them safety pilot with me and I for them would that be an acceptable practice? Not my intention, just curious if that would circumvent the pro rata share issue?

Interesting - I would think your a/c would then be subject to 100-hour inspection rules.
 
Interesting idea anyway. So sounds like under that scenario it would be legal and not subject to 100hr inspections.

Murdoughnut- Would be great to meet up, Panama City maybe???
 
I disagree. I think that if you offer your plane for rent and it can carry passengers, then it needs a 100 hr. The clause of interest is "carrying any person (other than a crew member) for hire..." The situation of renting to a safety pilot is interesting, but the grey area is the time between the begining of taxi until the time the instrumnet pilot lowers his hood. Until that happens, the safety pilot is a passenger. That is clearly documented by the fact that he does not log flight time for that portion of the flight. If he is not logging time, then he is not a required crew member and is a passenger.

Now if you were only renting you plane to safety pilots and only charged them a rental fee when you had your hood on, then you might make a case for yourself. Interesting...

Does anyone know of single seat aircraft that are offered as rentals? If so, what do they do about 100 hr inspections?

91.409(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may operate an aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire, and no person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides, unless within the preceding 100 hours of time in service the aircraft has received an annual or 100-hour inspection...
 
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