Looking for FlexJet Info

C

cime_sp

Well-Known Member
I'm looking to make the jump from the regional world to the Frac's and I have a number of friends that have gone to NJ or CS that I can talk to, but I haven't been able to find out much about FlexJet. Anybody care to share info other than what I can look up on airlinepilotcentral?

QOL, management relationship, work rules, vacation, benefits, still a little confused about the schedule, base/gateway policy, hiring/fleet plans, etc...I'm looking for the positives AND negatives.

Feel free to PM if you don't want anything out in the open!

Thanks
 
cime_sp said:
... but I haven't been able to find out much about FlexJet.
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That may say a lot in itself. I can tell you that there are many former Flex pilots flying for NetJets now. Bombardier isn't in the business to dominate the frac market, they are in the business to sell airplanes (to other people). They were once on very competitive ground with NJA, but have now limited their fleet size to <90 while the NJA division alone is now over 400.


http://av-info.faa.gov/detail.asp?DSGN_CODE=J7SA&OPER_FAR=135&OPER_NAME=JET+SOLUTIONS+LLC
 
NJA_Capt said:
Bombardier isn't in the business to dominate the frac market, they are in the business to sell airplanes (to other people). http://av-info.faa.gov/detail.asp?DSGN_CODE=J7SA&OPER_FAR=135&OPER_NAME=JET+SOLUTIONS+LLC
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Yeah that, had a friend who interviewed there and they told him specifically that they aren't competing with netjets. If they sell some fractionals great..but they really want to sell whole planes.

Schedule isn't really set. I believe its 18on 16 off any way you want them divided. Though still lacking behind NJA in many areas such as 401K(not sure of the exact company match but isn't 50% like NJA), medical(NJA is free, flex costs), and no 7/7.

I've still been told its a pretty good place to be.

Also they obviously don't have the variety of aircraft like NJA does.
 
Texasspilot said:
Though still lacking behind NJA in many areas such as 401K(not sure of the exact company match but isn't 50% like NJA),
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According to the APC site, Flexjet's match is only 6%, although it doesn't specify if the company matches dollar for dollar on that 6%. NJA says it's 50% of 15%, so it's really like 7.5% (of course, the site could be incorrect).

A school I worked at had the hanger next to Flexjet's TEB hanger. The guys I talked to didn't really speak too highly of the company, and personally thought it was a dead end job. That was back late 2003.

From an outsider, it really appears as though Netjets is a well run company (after all, it IS owned by wealthiest investor in the world) where as Flexjet is more of a loss-leader for Bombardier to sell aircraft. If I had to pick, I would go with the company that was making money :D!
 
:rawk: I am a pilot for FlexJet and I absolutely love it. The company is very good to their employees and will bend over backward to help you. They are not NJA and do not plan to be. They are very upfront about that in the interview and tell you that they strive to be the best not the biggest. The benefits are not free, although they are very cheap. Thanks in part to being owned by a canadian company, i.e. Bombardier. FlexJet tried the 7/7 schedule and no one seemed to like it too much. A typical schedule has you working 16 days a month, but you can work as little as 14 or as much as 18 if you want. To answer the previous post of speaking to a Flex guy with a negative attitude, you are going to find those in any job at any time!!! In 2003 things were the worst that they have ever been, and morale was down as it was everywhere, thanks to the fallout after 9/11. I have not flown or met one person with my company that I would have second thoughts about having a beer with. I came from a regional and will never go back to that type of flying. As any frac pilot can contest, the flying in frac's is diverse, challenging, and fun. Sometimes will see both coasts in a single rotation. Hope this helps, best of luck to you all.
 
NJA_Capt said:
That may say a lot in itself. I can tell you that there are many former Flex pilots flying for NetJets now. Bombardier isn't in the business to dominate the frac market, they are in the business to sell airplanes (to other people). They were once on very competitive ground with NJA, but have now limited their fleet size to <90 while the NJA division alone is now over 400.
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NJA Captain I know someone from Flex and he'd absolutely disagree with you 100%. Flex is probably the best place to be at right now, there's supposed to be major growth in the years ahead possibly as big as NJ. They're getting a lot of former Netjet customers and demand is high. He even went as far as saying Flex is the most successful right now.
 
fly8slep said:
NJA Captain I know someone from Flex and he'd absolutely disagree with you 100%. Flex is probably the best place to be at right now, there's supposed to be major growth in the years ahead possibly as big as NJ. They're getting a lot of former Netjet customers and demand is high. He even went as far as saying Flex is the most successful right now.
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On occasion, you'll even the most disgruntled employees drinking the Kool-Aid.

What does thay say about happy employees?
 
fly8slep said:
NJA Captain I know someone from Flex and he'd absolutely disagree with you 100%. Flex is probably the best place to be at right now, there's supposed to be major growth in the years ahead possibly as big as NJ. They're getting a lot of former NetJets customers and demand is high. He even went as far as saying Flex is the most successful right now.
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What else did Pinocchio say? (j/k)

I don't want to sling mud, but the data just doesn't support it.

Here is a quote from 1999. Notice the fleet size projection for the end of 1999 is the same as the current level. http://www.aeroworldnet.com/3in10189.htm

"The FlexJet program now has 70 aircraft and expects to see 87 in the fleet by year's end. This is a 47% increase over 1998 fleet levels. And growth is not expected to slow anytime soon, says Mike Riegel, FlexJet vice president of sales and marketing"
 
NJA_Capt said:
What else did Pinocchio say? (j/k)

I don't want to sling mud, but the data just doesn't support it.

Here is a quote from 1999. Notice the fleet size projection for the end of 1999 is the same as the current level. http://www.aeroworldnet.com/3in10189.htm

"The FlexJet program now has 70 aircraft and expects to see 87 in the fleet by year's end. This is a 47% increase over 1998 fleet levels. And growth is not expected to slow anytime soon, says Mike Riegel, FlexJet vice president of sales and marketing"
Click to expand...

It's true, he did say that Flex wasn't a very good place to be 5 years ago, they were just starting out. Now that the company is established and here to stay, pay and qol has gone up and most of the pilots are staying, with only a few leaving for places such as Southwest. But most are making a career out of Flex.
 
Flex has been good to me. I chose it over the competition because of the fleet. All other considerations are so close to being equal in my mind they could not sway me their way. Everybody that considers frac flying will have their own set of ideals of what they want and one of the fracs will fit the bill. I did not want to fly an Ultra or a Beechjet (Hawker400 or whatever they call it now) That helped me make my decision.

At Flex the QOL of life is good. I think that the folks that live in their base are happier than those that try to commute. (remember there are no jumpseat privaleges) The Hotels are for the most part great and the provided crew meals are pretty good. Most of the flying is during normal daytime hours with very little backside of the clock. Not sure what else might fall into QOL for you. If I have not covered it let me know.

Work rules are pretty standard for the 135/91K world. Max of 14 hours duty followed by 10 hours of rest with a total of 8 hours of flying. The rules are all in the FOM but I am not going to retype them.

Vacation starts at 2 weeks and goes up with senority. Each week of vacation is 5 days of pay with 4 days off on either side. In other words you get a string of at least 13 days off for each week of vacation.

Benefits are good. They are not free but they are not expensive. Full health, dental and vision are available with a choice of plans to fit your needs. 401K with match and stock purchase plan with match. There is also a fully paid pension plan. There is talk of doing away with the pension and increasing the 401K match but just talk at this time.

Schedule is not easy to explain but I will try. You can ask to work anywhere from 14 to 18 days each 28 day bid period. You can also bid on how you want those days broken down. I like to work 4 on and 3 off for 16 days a period. Others like to work more days in a row and get more days off in a row. You can also ask for specific days on or off for each period. (Weekends, weekdays or specific dates) You "bid" on your choice of variables and they are awarded on senority. One thing to remember you are bidding on which days you work and not a line like the 121 world. You will not know where you are going or what time you are flying on you work days until the night before and it can still change before you wake up.

As far as bases and gateways go it is pretty easy. You choose one of four when you are hired. DFW, ERW, FLL or ONT. You can live anywhere you want but you must be within an hour and a half of you gateway at midnight of day 1. If you want you can change gateways but there is a time period you must stay in the gateway after you change. (I don't remember exactly how long and don't want to get up to get the FOM) If you choose to not live in your gateway commuting cost is out of your pocket.

As a new hire you are assigned to which ever airplane they need you in at the time. FO pay is the same in all of the planes. You could get assigned to any of the four. Upgrade is to one of the Lears. The move to a Challanger as a captain is based on senority. Pay scales for captain is different in the Lears and the Challanger.

I am not sure of the exact numbers of each type of aircraft. The total is just below 90. There are around 12 Challanger 604s and they will begin changing those over to 605s this year. The Challanger 300 fleet is growing faster than any. Once again I don't know how many we have but I know that we can sell every one of them we can get and have around 6 backordered. The Lear 60 fleet is about 13 and holding steady. We are due to replace them with 60XR as they come available. The 45, 40 and 40XR are all in one fleet. There are more of these than any other but the 300 will pass it.

Hope all that helps. Good luck in your choice.
 
Currently upgrades are running right around 2 years. This can change very quickly however. Just a few years ago it was taking 6 years. I am not sure of the scheduled deliveries or what the net change in fleet size will be. The rumors are that the fleet will continue to grow slowly. Mostly due to an increase in Challenger 300 numbers. Deliveries do not necessarily lead to an increase in fleet size.
 
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