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_4G_

_4G_

Member
Hi everyone,

I was wondering if you guys can help me with couple questions.. note am a student who about to start collage

-should I go for ( aviation science degree) or not ?
-is finding a job easy, med, or hard?

It's my dream to fly, but i don't want from my dream to crush me!

help me to choose what's right :) my location is Michigan state.

Respectfully,
Rafid B
 
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You are one concussion/seizure or eye injury away from never flying a plane again. Something a simple as a car accident or slipping down a ledge hiking and your done medically. Thats not to say you cant go on to have a completely thrilling career, but at the same time ask yourself what an Aero Sci degree is worth without an FAA medical certificate.

Keep that in mind when your picking a degree as well as how worthwhile and enjoyable it would be. If I could go back to when I was 18, I would choke him (Im bigger now) until he agreed to take a Mechanical Engineering degree.
 
If you're about to start undergraduate, then you've obviously already chosen where you're going. What school will you be attending?

The traditional logic you're going to here on this forum is that you should study anything other than aviation, and that you should, in fact, not pursue aviation as a career. Most of these folks are angry and bitter, but consider that they used to be in your shoes. There was a period of time when they were just as bullish on this career as anyone, but were likely screwed at some point or another.

Also consider that there are people that have been ridden much harder than this angry, bitter people, and still find ways to enjoy their career.

Consider both of these positions as you move forward.

As far as WHAT to do study, the landscape on that issue is fluid. If your eventual goal is to fly for an airline, an undergraduate degree in aviation may be beneficial. It reduces the number of hours you need to be hired by a regional airline, and you can get student loans for your training.

If student loans are something you need in order to fund your education, consider very carefully that if you are able to get federal student loans for flight training you do through an undergraduate program, you may be able to get yourself on an income based repayment program. If you are, this could be huge. As an example, the Pay As You Earn program determines your monthly payments based on how much you make every month, and may allow you the flexibility to take low paying jobs to start your career without having a large debt burden on a monthly basis. This is, in my view, hugely important.

That being said, I went to Western Michigan in the fall of 2001 to study aviation, and walked out in 2005 with a degree in philosophy. I'm still working at an airline, and I've had no roadblocks in my career that were induced by my choice of undergraduate education.

Or said another way, it doesn't matter whether you study aviation or not, your success will come based on how hard you work, how well you network, and how personable you are.
 
_4G_ said:
Hi everyone,

I was wondering if you guys can help me with couple questions.. note am a student who about to start collage

-should I go for ( aviation science degree) or not ?
-is finding a job easy, med, or hard?

It's my dream to fly, but i don't want from my dream to crush me!

help me to choose what's right :) my location is Michigan state.

Respectfully,
Rafid B
Click to expand...

Don't get an "Aviation" degree. Major in something else that interests you so it can serve as a foundation for a backup in case flying doesn't work out (furloughed, lose a medical, etc). Also, look at flight training costs at a local FBO versus your college. You may find it cheaper at a FBO since you aren't paying for the "brand" name.
 
 
What @jtrain609 said. (as usual)

Background: I have a B.S. Computer Science and a B.A. Political Science, 2010, from CSU Channel Islands. I walked in to study CS and added the politics as an afterthought. You'll note none of these have anything to do with flying airplanes. You need not attend an aviation college to be an aviator, airline or otherwise. I learned how to fly on the side and worked through college and the immediate post-college time to pay for it. In early 2011, I was hired by Aperture Aviation (a photography operator), and in late 2011 I was hired by American Eagle Airlines. I now work for SkyWest. I drive to work and I'm a lineholder. We have our various problems, but I'm really quite happy. I have a side hustle doing programming. (I also have experience in information security and a boatload of technical writing experience too.)

The landscape has changed some since then. The regulatory requirements to be a first officer went up considerably in August of last year. If you get an aviation degree from an accredited source, you can discount the hour requirements somewhat. I would argue, though, that it's not worth it considering the loan load you'll likely have. Study something you want to study, that inspires your intellect, with an eye towards practical things that you're going to be (1) good at and (2) might want to do on the side. My side business (software) is a creative outlet and in many ways a saving grace for me.

This is my path; your mileage will vary.
 
ocdflyboy said:
Go for the degree that you want to wake up and go do everyday. Do something you love and you'll never work a day in your life.
Click to expand...

This quote always gets me....whether or not you love flying, it's still work when you have to dump the honey pot that baked in a 100 degree cabin all day.
 
deadringer86 said:
This quote always gets me....whether or not you love flying, it's still work when you have to dump the honey pot that baked in a 100 degree cabin all day.
Click to expand...
We have people who do that for us, but yes, there are certainly aspects of my job that are hard work. Most of them are early-morning or late-night or extreme environmental conditions (Fresno and Yuma are lovely this time of year)-related.

Acrofox said:
In my opinion, collage is a waste of time. I recommend painting or learning digital art instead.

Then again, if it's your passion I say go for it.

-Fox
Click to expand...
memes-meme-pictures-Favim.com-999669.jpg
 
Autothrust Blue said:
What @jtrain609 said. (as usual)

Background: I have a B.S. Computer Science and a B.A. Political Science, 2010, from CSU Channel Islands. I walked in to study CS and added the politics as an afterthought. You'll note none of these have anything to do with flying airplanes. You need not attend an aviation college to be an aviator, airline or otherwise. I learned how to fly on the side and worked through college and the immediate post-college time to pay for it. In early 2011, I was hired by Aperture Aviation (a photography operator), and in late 2011 I was hired by American Eagle Airlines. I now work for SkyWest. I drive to work and I'm a lineholder. We have our various problems, but I'm really quite happy. I have a side hustle doing programming. (I also have experience in information security and a boatload of technical writing experience too.)

The landscape has changed some since then. The regulatory requirements to be a first officer went up considerably in August of last year. If you get an aviation degree from an accredited source, you can discount the hour requirements somewhat. I would argue, though, that it's not worth it considering the loan load you'll likely have. Study something you want to study, that inspires your intellect, with an eye towards practical things that you're going to be (1) good at and (2) might want to do on the side. My side business (software) is a creative outlet and in many ways a saving grace for me.

This is my path; your mileage will vary.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but...

What are the barriers to entry if you have to pay that student loan back at a fixed rate from day one? What jobs will you be unable to accept because you can't afford it? How is that going to negatively affect your career movement?

Folks love to talk about low debt loads, and that's great, but this equation is a little more complicated than that. A higher level of debt may be worthwhile if you're purchasing the ability to have flexible payment terms.

More so, my sWAG is that prices have normalized to an equally high level across the marketplace for training. In fact, here are some examples:

ATP will charge you $65,000 to go from private through MEI. Western Michigan will charge you $62,000 to go from private through CFI. Add in the CFII and MEI rides, and you're probably talking about the same number of dollars.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Still at a variable percentage rate?
Click to expand...

That depends.

Federal student loans are at like 6.8% fixed (or at least mine are). Sallie Mae is doing ATP's financing, and I imagine they have a number of options on this front, but the income based repayment programs that the federal government is offering are, as far as I know (and I like to think that I do, being that I just started paying on my student loans about a year ago), the best deal out there today. I expect this to continue to be the case.
 
jtrain609 said:
Yeah, but...

What are the barriers to entry if you have to pay that student loan back at a fixed rate from day one? What jobs will you be unable to accept because you can't afford it? How is that going to negatively affect your career movement?

Folks love to talk about low debt loads, and that's great, but this equation is a little more complicated than that. A higher level of debt may be worthwhile if you're purchasing the ability to have flexible payment terms.

More so, my sWAG is that prices have normalized to an equally high level across the marketplace for training. In fact, here are some examples:

ATP will charge you $65,000 to go from private through MEI. Western Michigan will charge you $62,000 to go from private through CFI. Add in the CFII and MEI rides, and you're probably talking about the same number of dollars.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. (I was lucky)

If you have a low interest rate and some flexibility on payment, hop in.
 
Acrofox said:
!!!

You ... you... I was typing when you posted that. -.-;

-Fox
Click to expand...
If it only worked this way for me in the job gittin' domain. One day, maybe I'll beat one you faster, younger, cleverer, better looking bastards to the punch and git me that gig flying a part 91 787. ;)
 
jtrain609 said:
If you're about to start undergraduate, then you've obviously already chosen where you're going. What school will you be attending?

The traditional logic you're going to here on this forum is that you should study anything other than aviation, and that you should, in fact, not pursue aviation as a career. Most of these folks are angry and bitter, but consider that they used to be in your shoes. There was a period of time when they were just as bullish on this career as anyone, but were likely screwed at some point or another.

Also consider that there are people that have been ridden much harder than this angry, bitter people, and still find ways to enjoy their career.

Consider both of these positions as you move forward.

As far as WHAT to do study, the landscape on that issue is fluid. If your eventual goal is to fly for an airline, an undergraduate degree in aviation may be beneficial. It reduces the number of hours you need to be hired by a regional airline, and you can get student loans for your training.

If student loans are something you need in order to fund your education, consider very carefully that if you are able to get federal student loans for flight training you do through an undergraduate program, you may be able to get yourself on an income based repayment program. If you are, this could be huge. As an example, the Pay As You Earn program determines your monthly payments based on how much you make every month, and may allow you the flexibility to take low paying jobs to start your career without having a large debt burden on a monthly basis. This is, in my view, hugely important.

That being said, I went to Western Michigan in the fall of 2001 to study aviation, and walked out in 2005 with a degree in philosophy. I'm still working at an airline, and I've had no roadblocks in my career that were induced by my choice of undergraduate education.

Or said another way, it doesn't matter whether you study aviation or not, your success will come based on how hard you work, how well you network, and how personable you are.
Click to expand...
Silly train, giving actual information. You're supposed to make a clever quip about how bad aviation is, say something about 20k wages for years, and then recommend he go to law school or engineering.
 
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