Looking for a shortcut...

BoomerSooner77

BoomerSooner77

New Member
Here's my favorite. When arrowplanes are climbing out... Once they get on the first center frequency still in the low altitude stratum (FL230 and below) are asking for a shortcut. The controller says "I am unable at this time, it won't be the next controller but the one after that can turn you more direct".

That controller is sitting right next to me and I hear what they say (Usually Low and High sectors are sitting together). They change you to my frequency for a climb clearance and the first thing after readback... "Center, CALLSIGN, looking for a shortcut".

Now I know you just heard the previous controller... I can't turn you, so why did you even ask, seriously. You're wasting both our times. NO, next controller will turn you when able!

If you're in the Midwest, never even think about asking for a shortcut until you're at or above FL240. If you want to stay at or below FL230 ask all you want, it can be done... just don't send me a fuel bill.
 
There are so many local preferences and procedures. You may know what works at your facility and I may know what works at mine. The frequency of a crew jumping around the country means that aside from their home base, each crew you talk to may be only vaguely familiar with what works for you and what doesn't. You say don't ask for shortcuts below the high sectors in the midwest, but in my experience Center begs, borrows or APREQS several flights a day going direct the initial STAR fix or destination in that same stretch of country. It is what it is.

I also know for an unfortunate fact I don't know how center is laid out and they likewise have no clue how my TRACON is laid out. I certainly don't expect any pilot to know what I'm telling them the next controller they talk to knows or hears unless I tell them myself that I've passes it along.
 
I totally see what you're saying. What I am talking about is when the sector controllers are all in the same room together and they explicitly inform the pilots when to ask and they just keep asking is the annoyance. Well, it's not even really an annoyance it's more frequency congestion. I can say "I have you're request" all day.... but when the pilot already knows what to expect, then wait for it.

I think where my larger issue lies is that both controllers and pilots know about SIDs and STARs but continually request routing that conflicts with each other.

Be advised I am talking about pilots that take off and land in this area continually... I forgive the occasional one offs as they aren't in here every day.

My thoughts being 1) You land here everyday, you know if you get a turn right now you're in direct conflict with arrivals. 2) You've already been told I can't turn you by the previous controller, why'd you ask?!
 
... and while we're on the subject... do you understand what 3 miles CONSTANTLY increasing means? LOL, I am just messing you man.
 
I am trying to build time, so shortcuts aren't optimal. But I seem to get tons of them anyway.

Just after leaving the LA basin:
"Seminole 257AT cleared direct Sacramento" :)
 
What dictates whether or not you can give direct, and how do you determine how far down the road you can give direct? Do you just call the next sector, or do you have to ask all the way down the line to whoever owns what the pilot is asking for?

For instance, I fly from ORF to LAS, and the best I can get is a couple states away. When I come out of LAS, I get the VOR that starts the STAR into ORF, almost all the way across the country.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
What dictates whether or not you can give direct, and how do you determine how far down the road you can give direct? Do you just call the next sector, or do you have to ask all the way down the line to whoever owns what the pilot is asking for?

For instance, I fly from ORF to LAS, and the best I can get is a couple states away. When I come out of LAS, I get the VOR that starts the STAR into ORF, almost all the way across the country.
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It depends on what your arrival airport is, and to some extent, what type of aircraft you are flying. Pistons typically have few, if any route restrictions on them so if I see someone in a Cirrus/Bonanza/172/etc.. that has filed a STAR into an airport, I'll usually give them direct to their destination.

When it comes to turbine aircraft, there are LOAs and SOPs we have to comply with for aircraft going to certain airports which restrict the routing(s) we can give aircraft. Typically they are to the initial fix of a STAR, so I wouldn't bother asking for any shortcuts past that point unless you're talking to a controller in the same center that the approach control is in. But to get approval to go beyond the fixes specified in a LOA, it has to be approved by the controller that would work the aircraft in the next center. I usually leave aircraft on the LOA route unless a shortcut would help me resolve a confliction, or it is later in the evening and I don't have much to do. If there is no LOA that we have to comply with, usually common sense and experience dictate how far down the road we can shortcut someone.
 
BoomerSooner77 said:
... and while we're on the subject... do you understand what 3 miles CONSTANTLY increasing means? LOL, I am just messing you man.
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...and while we're on the subject... sure, I'll take that guy you couldn't get down from flight levels who is less than 20 miles from their intended destination airport since you couldn't meet crossing restrictions. LOL j/k
 
BoomerSooner77 said:
... and while we're on the subject... do you understand what 3 miles CONSTANTLY increasing means? LOL, I am just messing you man.
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I believe it is "constant or increasing"

If you work on the east coast, shortcuts aren't even requested for the most part, when you do give them you're a hero.
 
I actually had, for the first time ever, a pilot turn me down when I offered them a shortcut today. I couldn't believe it!
 
RobertB said:
I actually had, for the first time ever, a pilot turn me down when I offered them a shortcut today. I couldn't believe it!
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There are times when it is in our best interest to not take a shortcut.

I've had to turn them down before because we were already close to being over max landing weight and the shortcut was big enough that it was going to put us over that weight.
 
Some of the old grouchy guys won't give any shortcuts no matter what, so I understand the pilots asking again even though you said not to do it LOL. And working in Cleveland center it really is a crap-shoot when you can/cannot get shortcuts. In our area specifically Cleveland departures going westbound get shortcuts consistently states away to avoid a conflict with DTW southbound departures or to keep them off of J60 which can be packed with Chicago Midway arrivals and other westbound aircraft. The only shortcuts I give are ones that are not going to make work for another controller down the line. CLE westbound we can go direct as far as Denver center without making anyone upset. CLE southbound and eastbound we really can't do anything though unless hardly anybody is flying.
 
If you ask the guy before me for something and are told no then ask me for the same thing, I guarantee you'll get no requests granted for the duration of the flight...

We do talk to each other :)
 
Some basics for working with ATC and getting what you want from them:

1. Don't be a pain in ATCs ass.
2. Don't sound like a moron on the radio; ie- use some professional, curt, concise, correct comm.
3. There's a time and place for relaxed comm or low-key banter. Have the SA to know when that time is.
4. There's a time and place for special requests. Have the SA to gauge a controllers workload at any given time of day.
5. Any questions, refer to #1
 
So...what you're saying is that when I check in with departure, climbing through 1,700 feet on runway heading, I shouldn't be asking for a shortcut already? :dunno:






:) I keeeed.
 
Jpax said:
So...what you're saying is that when I check in with departure, climbing through 1,700 feet on runway heading, I shouldn't be asking for a shortcut already? :dunno:






:) I keeeed.
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LOL lets keep it simple and just give me your altitude...
 
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