Long Shot - Fujitsu Lifebook P1620 as EFB..

[PaulRix]

This is a long shot, but does anyone here know of a Pt135 operator that uses the Fujitsu Lifebook P1620 as an EFB solution? I have some questions about the approval process (specifically, how to tackle the question of if the unit would fail in a rapid decompression situation). Fujitsu tech support came back with the usual 'use at your own risk' and that the unit was not specifically designed for use in an aircraft. The P1620 is the same tablet computer that Sporty's is selling right now.

 

[minitour]

EJM has at least 1 aircraft setup with the 1610 as their EFB (pt 135) and the aircraft is paperless. They still carry the enroute binders per Jeppesen, but they use the 1610 for everything else. 1620 = new 1610.


As for the 1610....awesome. I have one, I love it.

-mini

 

[PaulRix]

Thanks for the info! I will shoot them off an email and see if they would be willing to talk with me about it.

 

[minitour]

Anything I can help with just let me know. I don't work there, but I know the guy that got their program up and running on that aircraft.

Basics:

• 3 EFBs
• One for each pilot and a standby.
• At least one "sterile" (nothing but Flitedeck & windows) unit
• CD Updates required for 135 no online updates - this can suck, because Jepp is known to be late with their CD updates...
• 6 month period where you carry paper as a backup, after that if no problems and your POI blesses you, you're paperless except the enroute binder or binders

-mini

 

[PaulRix]

That's great information, thanks.. PM coming your way.

 

[SteveC]

We use the P1620 as EFBs in our Lears, but did not get them approved for paperless cockpit Part 135. We print Jepp charts and keep a full set of NOS onboard to meet requirements.

Any thing that I can help with other than approvals?

 

[PaulRix]

Thanks for the info Steve. I just needed info about the 135 approval process (we want to get rid of that full set of NOS plates) but it is good to know that there are other companies out there using the same unit in a similar capacity. The company I work for has bought two P1620's in anticipation of running the trial. From what I have seen so far I think it will be a great asset in the cockpit.

 

[JDE]

We use the P1620 as EFBs in our Lears, but did not get them approved for paperless cockpit Part 135. We print Jepp charts and keep a full set of NOS onboard to meet requirements.

Any thing that I can help with other than approvals?

How come you guys didn't get them approved? I have no idea of the process either...money thing?

 

[SteveC]

I wasn't involved in the original decision making process, but I can tell you that we would not try to do it knowing what we know now. The EFB's just don't work very well in the Lear 40/45 cockpit. They take up too much room and are too clunky to rely on 100% for charts. If there were more room to use them, or a place to permanently mount them it would be different, but as things are they are just not easy to use.

We ordered the planes with two EFBs, one for each pilot. We have since removed one and keep it as a backup and only use one unit on the right seat side. We almost never even bother opening JeppView FliteDeck on the EFB. It's such a PITA software, and it runs slow on these laptops, that the guys would rather dig out the NOS charts if we divert somewhere (we print Jepp charts for intended airports of operation prior to each trip).

We really use the EFBs for three things. The most important use, and really the only reason we keep the things in the cockpit, is to be able to get really good weather information. We have XM radio on the Lears and we use WxWorx to have near-real time weather information (including Nexrad radar, TAFS, METARS, satellite, winds aloft, etc.) in the cockpit. Some flights we never even turn the EFB on, but when it's a crappy day WxWorx is a great tool for updating plans and alternates. The other things that we use the EFB for is getting FBO information (UVTripPlanner) and performance numbers (UltraNav).

We are looking at getting our newest aircraft (Falcon 2000 EASy) approved for paperless cockpit, but that is a completely different animal than using the Fujitsu EFBs.

 

[JDE]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who doesn't like the EFB's in a small airplane. We've got 2 in the Excel, and they're just a huge PITA. With cords everywhere and always getting tangled up with the headset cords...I'd much rather have a paper chart in front of me - not to mention it's easier to reference the airport diagram or approach chart when it's on the clip (we don't print anything off, but have a full set of Jepps). They are nice to have with the XM Weather and performance software, and I agree, Jepp Flight Deck is pretty much a joke too. How do you like WxWorx? What was the initial cost for the software?

Oh yeah, tell me about this 2000...

 

[SteveC]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who doesn't like the EFB's in a small airplane. We've got 2 in the Excel, and they're just a huge PITA. With cords everywhere and always getting tangled up with the headset cords...I'd much rather have a paper chart in front of me

The Lear cockpit is tighter than the Excel.

How do you like WxWorx? What was the initial cost for the software?

I don't know about the cost. We got it bundled with the EFBs as part of the package on the planes (our fourth new Lear is going for a flight tomorrow at the factory, delivery in a couple of weeks!). WxWorx actually works pretty well, but the software isn't real intuitive. Nothing too tough to figure out, but just not as straight forward as it could be. The more time we spend with it and figure out what all is available the better we like it.

Oh yeah, tell me about this 2000...

It's actually a used 2000 EASy that the owner picked up until his brand new one is ready in a couple of years. Heh, maybe delivery will move up on that since the market is getting pretty soft at the moment. Anyway, we've got plenty of volunteers to fly the thing right now. Two guys are finishing up their types as we speak (they were already rated and had time in the straight 2000 as well as 3 or 4 other Falcon types, but needed to do initials for the EASy cockpit), and the Chief Pilot scarfed up the third slot for himself. After that we'll see how much the plane gets utilized before deciding if any more pilots will get typed in it.

At the other end of the spectrum we have a couple of pilots in Dallas right now doing the ground portion of their types for the Phenom 100. I guess they'll be heading to Brazil after that for training in the actual aircraft. Delivery of our plane is supposed to be in a couple of weeks from now.

Getting busy around here. We're one of the lucky few I guess.

:bandit:

 

[minitour]

Thanks for the info Steve. I just needed info about the 135 approval process (we want to get rid of that full set of NOS plates) but it is good to know that there are other companies out there using the same unit in a similar capacity. The company I work for has bought two P1620's in anticipation of running the trial. From what I have seen so far I think it will be a great asset in the cockpit.

There's an AC you'll need to follow and a job aid that the POI will have to follow. You'll have to apply for the op spec, do 6 months with paper as a backup. You won't regret going paperless.

-mini

 

[PaulRix]

I have a copy of both the job aid and the AC and met with the POI the other day to talk about it. A letter requesting the trial has been sent to the POI, so things should start moving now. Thanks for all the input guys, very much appreciated.

-mini, did you manage to get that program working on your 1610?

 

[minitour]

Not yet. I haven't looked at my flight bag in like a week, so I'll need to get on that.

Did you get a message at the other place? He's been on vacation this week, so I'm sure his attention has been diverted a little.:yup:

-mini

 

[SIUav8er]

Great info here guys!

-minitour,
The only question I have is why cant the online updates be used? In one of the Citation i fly, we've got a GNS 430 that get updates via the online update service (plugs into the computer with Jeppview). Why would it make a difference for the EFB?

 

[minitour]

-minitour,
The only question I have is why cant the online updates be used? In one of the Citation i fly, we've got a GNS 430 that get updates via the online update service (plugs into the computer with Jeppview). Why would it make a difference for the EFB?

So sayeth the POI. Let it be written, let it be done.

...honestly other than that I have no idea.

I'm pretty sure that the idea is to keep the unit "sterile" so there's no corrupt data getting onto your EFB. God forbid you're at 100' AGL, can't find anything and have to execute a missed approach procedure only to look down to a black screen because of a virus or something...that's just speculation though.

-mini

 

[PaulRix]

Did you get a message at the other place? He's been on vacation this week, so I'm sure his attention has been diverted a little.:yup:

-mini

Not as yet, but if he is on vacation then I can certainly wait. As for the program, no hurry.

 

[SIUav8er]

God forbid you're at 100' AGL, can't find anything and have to execute a missed approach procedure only to look down to a black screen because of a virus or something...that's just speculation though.

-mini

sounds about right! lol, the feds dont want us to get rick rolled at the MAP in the soup:


[yt]Hg5SJYRHA0[/yt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

 

[minitour]

sounds about right! lol, the feds dont want us to get rick rolled at the MAP in the soup:

That's half the fun...

-mini