Logging UPT Time

I recommend even if you have appropriate ratings AMEL and ASEL before SUPT, you can either log it in you civilian logbook "for the Memories" I did 34 years ago, but I would not log the T-6 or T-38 as PIC. The T-1 is a definite no since it has a civilian type and you don't get that till you graduate. While it may be legal to log dual time it as PIC, under Part 61, under Part 1 definition it is not ( you didn't sign for the airplane). I recommend you keep you military printout which shows it as student time when you go for an airline interview and let them tell you how they want it logged. The regs don't matter, only the airline policy. A friend of mine went to a United interview prep in Denver and they told him United would not like him logging his T-38 time at IFF as PIC, although the FAA would be happy with it. He called United the day before the interview and mentioned it, they asked him "Are you a fighter guy?" Yes. "Did you log IFF as PIC?" Yes. " Your interview is cancelled you can reapply in 6 months." 9/11 happened and he is not flying with the airlines now. He is a sim instructor at CAFB and feels he is better off. Soooo, I would include it in total time, but not PIC. You could use it towards total time for ATP, but I would not recommend using it to meet the PIC minimums. Same about how to account for the difference in the way military time vs civilian time is logged. Some airlines want the raw data, others will tell you to add .2 or .3 per sortie. Just some thoughts.
 
mhcasey said:
I came to UPT with commercial ASEL/AMEL. I haven't logged any of my dual time here as PIC (T-6 and T-38), but for future jobs what are your thoughts on claiming it all as PIC as sole manipulator of the controls? Disclaimer: I'm reserve so may be looking for civilian gigs in ~2 years.
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One thing to remember is that many airlines apply a multiplier for fighter time PIC when comparing it to heavy driver total time. This compensates for the fact fighter guys are actively making decisions their entire flight time instead of stroking the autopilot and playing scrabble with the co-pilot. My point is that the 200 hours in SUPT probably isn't going to be the deciding factor. Airlines also look for you flight time to be in the same range as people with similar backgrounds. You don't want to be extremely above or below the norms unless you have a real positive reason. Since you went T-38s I assume your flight time will be all fighter PIC and after a couple of years you'll have alot of PIC turbine, that is what's important.
 
Wow that's kind of harsh. I don't know about IFF, but on the Navy side, a solid portion of your phase II jet stuff (the equivalent to IFF) is spent solo (I had something like 43 solos in the T-45C). Not sure how they can argue that this is not PIC, even if you aren't technically NATOPS/-1 qualified.
 
///AMG said:
Wow that's kind of harsh. I don't know about IFF, but on the Navy side, a solid portion of your phase II jet stuff (the equivalent to IFF) is spent solo (I had something like 43 solos in the T-45C). Not sure how they can argue that this is not PIC, even if you aren't technically NATOPS/-1 qualified.
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I don't think USAF IFF has any solo time. there are only 4 hours solo in the T-6, I don't know how much in T-38's. Point is, for USAF folks it's so small it is not worth the potential pitfalls. For a fighter guy getting out after 10 years they probably have 1500+ turbine PIC so another 30 or so hours isn't a big deal.
 
FightingFalconInstructor said:
I don't think USAF IFF has any solo time. there are only 4 hours solo in the T-6, I don't know how much in T-38's. Point is, for USAF folks it's so small it is not worth the potential pitfalls. For a fighter guy getting out after 10 years they probably have 1500+ turbine PIC so another 30 or so hours isn't a big deal.
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Interesting, I would have thought that single pilot ops would have also been a big priority for USAF jet school.....they certainly were for us. Agreed about it not really mattering; plenty of meaningful PIC and mission commander time to be logged down the road in grey jets.
 
///AMG said:
Interesting, I would have thought that single pilot ops would have also been a big priority for USAF jet school.....they certainly were for us.
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In the T-38 training program, there is a pretty good chunk of solo time -- probably 20 hours through the program -- but the overall training mentality is "single seat". In other words, the instructors are in the aircraft for safety and instruction when required, but the emphasis is on the student decisionmaking as if he were alone in the jet.
 
Hacker, that's true. I think the reason the USAF does more dual than the Navy is because it makes it easier to deal with the weather. If an IP is on board you don't have to deal with the "can a solo student fly thru clouds" and such going to/from the area. And the USAF is on a fixed timeline, the Navy is, well you know it is the Navy.
 
FightingFalconInstructor said:
I don't think USAF IFF has any solo time. there are only 4 hours solo in the T-6, I don't know how much in T-38's. Point is, for USAF folks it's so small it is not worth the potential pitfalls. For a fighter guy getting out after 10 years they probably have 1500+ turbine PIC so another 30 or so hours isn't a big deal.
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Which is why I never logged UPT time or even IFF T-38 time as PIC. Yes, in IFF I had my wings, but I was not Form 8 checked in the aircraft, hence didn't log PIC.
 
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