Logging UPT Time

mhcasey

Well-Known Member
I came to UPT with commercial ASEL/AMEL. I haven't logged any of my dual time here as PIC (T-6 and T-38), but for future jobs what are your thoughts on claiming it all as PIC as sole manipulator of the controls? Disclaimer: I'm reserve so may be looking for civilian gigs in ~2 years.
 
I came to UPT with commercial ASEL/AMEL. I haven't logged any of my dual time here as PIC (T-6 and T-38), but for future jobs what are your thoughts on claiming it all as PIC as sole manipulator of the controls? Disclaimer: I'm reserve so may be looking for civilian gigs in ~2 years.

I came to UPT with an ATP. I never logged any of my T-37 or T-38 time as PIC, either dual or solo. I alos log conservatively

Dual, because I wasn't a winged USAF pilot yet, and as such......as an ATP (talking FAA), I didn't consider logging PIC in a turbojet that I wasn't either type rated in or Form 8 qualed in (because I didn't have wings yet) to be copasetic with logging PIC; again due to my own personal method of logging and to have what I would consider to be an accurate reflection of my flight time.

Solo, granted I was sole manipulator and that rule had just change around that time (prior to that, you could log solo, but not PIC if pre-PPL), and since all my pre-PPL time was solo and not PIC; I logged my solo T-38 time (which wasn't a considerable amount) as solo only and not PIC; and I've never gone back and changed either that time nor my pre-PPL time from the 1980s.

Thats just how I log it. Of course, post-winging, I was (in my own conservative way) able to log time as PIC.

Speaking of, I also didn't log my flights when in A-10 FTU as PIC until after my Form 8 cert ride (ride #6 or so). Again, I could've logged it as sole manipulator, but wanted to keep my logbook logging consistent. As such, I missed out on 8 or so hours of PIC time there.

The difference between you and me, is that I flew considerably for a job prior to UPT, so I showed up with 4300 hours and nearly all of it as PIC, since I always flew single-pilot. So, I didn't need the PIC time for anything, as I already had a ton. In your case, its obviously different, plus you have some regulatory latitude in that realm that I didn't have before, yet I chose to still follow the old way simply for consistency purposes.

That's just how I've always, and still, do it.
 
I logged everything that wasn't solo as "dual received".

This is because most airlines only want to know about PIC time in which you actually signed out the aircraft. In other words, NOT according to the Part 61 definition of PIC.

At UPT, even if you had the appropriate ratings before showing up, you never signed for the aircraft on sorties other than solos.

Better to log conservatively.
 
I logged everything that wasn't solo as "dual received".

This is because most airlines only want to know about PIC time in which you actually signed out the aircraft. In other words, NOT according to the Part 61 definition of PIC.

At UPT, even if you had the appropriate ratings before showing up, you never signed for the aircraft on sorties other than solos.

Better to log conservatively.

100% agree. And I should've added this too to my explanation. If I'm not signing the 781 for the jet, and I'm not Form 8 qualed, then I'm not PIC.
 
I've logged all my time in the training command the same way, "dual" unless I was solo, ie signing for the aircraft. In that case, I don't really care if I didn't have a full up NATOPS qual, it was still my a** if something went wrong. Probably only logged ~ 40-50 hrs solo in flight school anyway, so at the end of a military career, it isn't going to make much difference either way I'd think.
 
I've logged all my time in the training command the same way, "dual" unless I was solo, ie signing for the aircraft. In that case, I don't really care if I didn't have a full up NATOPS qual, it was still my a** if something went wrong.

Haha.......it's not like if you screwed up and wrecked the jet, that you had any wings to lose at the time......pending you survived. :)
 
The only time I logged anything different from military time is when the military would not let me log the type of time- for example, I could log night or IMC, but not both with the military. In my civilian logbook I put both. On the flip side there was military time I never logged. The military counted IP time while I was in a jump seat. I never logged it in my civilian log book. Same with sim time while I was in the back as an IP.
 
Did you guys keep a separate logbook for military time, or just log everything in the same book? I was thinking of getting the Flyboys logbook they sell at the BX to keep my UPT time separate.
 
Did you guys keep a separate logbook for military time, or just log everything in the same book? I was thinking of getting the Flyboys logbook they sell at the BX to keep my UPT time separate.

I kept everything in the same book. Where there was some difference between civilian/military, or something in military that was not in civilian (such as combat time), I put a note in the remarks section.
 
Did you guys keep a separate logbook for military time, or just log everything in the same book? I was thinking of getting the Flyboys logbook they sell at the BX to keep my UPT time separate.

Same book. No need for a different one.
 
I came to UPT with commercial ASEL/AMEL. I haven't logged any of my dual time here as PIC (T-6 and T-38), but for future jobs what are your thoughts on claiming it all as PIC as sole manipulator of the controls? Disclaimer: I'm reserve so may be looking for civilian gigs in ~2 years.
__________________
Goodbye civilian aviation.

Well, I guess the grass is always greener. . . :D
 
IIRC I logged my T-6 time as PIC time IAW 61.51 (sole manipulator of an aircraft in which I'm rated [ASEL]) towards my ATP, but I have a separate column for the "PIC time" the airlines are interested in. I don't put any of my military time in my civilian logbook, but I do have an electronic logbook where everything goes.
 
If you logged UPT time as dual received, did you get your instructors to sign every entry? I was thinking i would just make one entry in my logbook for each airframe with the total amount of hours and then have my printed flight records as a backup. Sound legit or did you guys really write in every flight Great thread by the way...thanks for the info.
 
If you logged UPT time as dual received, did you get your instructors to sign every entry? I was thinking i would just make one entry in my logbook for each airframe with the total amount of hours and then have my printed flight records as a backup. Sound legit or did you guys really write in every flight Great thread by the way...thanks for the info.

I wrote in every flight, as dual, and didn't get any signatures.
 
If you logged UPT time as dual received, did you get your instructors to sign every entry?

Not required for the FAA (your IPs are not CFIs), and a total pain in the rectum to accomplish.

I was thinking i would just make one entry in my logbook for each airframe with the total amount of hours and then have my printed flight records as a backup.

Realize that how you log it may impact what kind of "military conversion time" you get later on down the road when applying for an airline. Some airlines apply their conversion factor to each sortie flown, others have a conversion factor that gets applied to your total military time. If you are a fighter/trainer guy (lots of short sorties) then it is to your advantage to have the individual lines logged. For a heavy dude with longer sorties, then it doesn't matter.
 
Realize that how you log it may impact what kind of "military conversion time" ...
Some airlines apply their conversion factor to each sortie flown, others have a conversion factor that gets applied to your total military time.
Just to clarify for some of you: some airlines do not have a mil conversion. United, for example, wanted to see your time exactly as it was on your USAF flying time print out.
 
Back
Top